Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

After being made redundant at the start of April, my wife persuaded me to go into business as a handyman, so this is what I have been doing for the last few months.
So far everything has been going well, until a job last week.
Customer wanted a shed base put down and a shed that he had bought erected. Not a problem, I've put a few together in my time but prefer making my own from scratch as bought ones are usually shyte.
Custom tells me the base doesn't need to be anything special and just put one down thats flat and level. After giving him a few options he settles on me digging the base, putting in some shuttering and laying pavers on half a ton of ballast and sand.
This was done and the following day I returned to put the shed up.
Upon reaching the point of the roof going on, it was evident that the shed was of terrible quality and things were starting to prove problematic, but never the less I managed to get the job done. I leave an invoice as he was not in and the following working day I receive a phone call from him telling me he is not happy.
After looking at several review websites that afternoon it becomes clear to me that the shed causes all sorts of problems, not just for the general diy'er, but also for builders, carpenters, and even qualified joiners.
So yesterday I go back to see if I can resolve the problem, but the blame for the quality of the shed is shifted on to me, that I should have told the customer it was a crap shed, and that he wanted someone to come round and put the shed together and be able to do a better job than he could.
He then suggested if he had put it together it would have been pretty much perfect, even though he has never put a shed together in his life, but he is great with ikea furniture! lol.
He then suggested that I hadn't followed the instructions, but when I said I had he called me a liar.
Tried telling me it was wrong because the central roof support did not look like the one on the instructions, which in fairness it didn't but is designed to do exactly the same job, again not my fault I can only use what has been supplied.
The main problem is that the rear panel is slightly wider than the front panel, so at the rear of the shed the roof doesn't line up properly, so there is about an inch gap at the top, which is covered by roofing felt anyway, so will not leak. There are also many other manufacturing problems with the shed that I had to try to overcome and are also widely reported on the internet.
He then shifted his attention on the shed base, because one of the lengths of wood shuttering was half an inch longer than the rest. Ok, that was a slight oversight on my behalf but not the end of the world I thought for a base that didn't need to be anything special just flat and level.
He also moaned that the base is slightly bigger than the shed that sits on it, but I had no way of telling the actual footprint of the shed before I had put it together, and as it was described as a 6x6 shed I used 6' lengths of shuttering and 16 x 450mm pavers to make a 6x6 base.

Anyway, after that essay, I have told him I will sort the shuttering out and make my own, slightly ****ed to fit, roof panel so there is no gap, but to be honest after his attitude, and calling me a liar and trying to pass the blame for a very poor quality shed that he bought on to me, I would rather tell him to shove his money up his ar5e, as long as I don't here from him again, but I am worried if there would be any comeback on me for the work that I have done, albeit for nothing.
Can I be held accountable for what is in effect a bad quality product, which is well known to be of bad quality on the internet?

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Tell him if he's not happy and is being funny about paying that you'll take it down. You've nothing to lose and if he's not paying at least he'll have to get it erected again.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

OK, here's my advice, take a deep breath.... and another.

Right you should first off print out the web reviews you have found and take them round to show him in a friendly, 'look mate you weren't to know you were buying a rubbish product but hey ho too late now let's see what we can do' way. I know that is hard after he has accused you of all sorts but say to him that you are a good handyman and you want to leave the customer happy. Give him a plan of what it will take to get the shed usable using your skills and goodwill.

Now if we are talking an hour or two of work I would suggest you say that you will do it for free, or if it is more time tell him how much that would normally cost but offer a discounted rate.

If he agrees the outcome should be that he gets a shed he is happy with and also he'll tell friends and neighbours that despite this shed being utter rubbish you are skilled enough to make it usable. Glowing references.

Also suggest that you can write to the shed company or whoever sold it to him with a report and photos of what you had to do to make is usable and suggest they offer him a partial refund as the product wasn't fit for purpose.

(Of course if the guy is just a total kn0b I would just do as suggested in the first reply!)

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

word of mouth is king as a handyman.

I definitely think you should be pointing him at the shed company but that you messed up a little when you continued erecting a shed that was clearly faulty. If it was yours I have no doubt you'd have sent it back (I know it's easy to say this after the fact but I've been there and made the same mistake.)

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Yup that's about as good as you were going to make the situation.


If he carries on being a cnut then dismantle the shed (under auspices of "fixing it") leave it in bits and then invite him to do a better job :mrgreen:

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

get used to it, it wont be the first and wont be the last. a lot of people phone 'handymen' as they think of them as easy targets for non payment. i done it for a while but found that i was getting the jobs 'tradesmen' would not touch.

i ALWAYS asked for a deposit first and the deposit was to cover materials in case of non payment. no deposit then no work. also if you think the job is going to be a mare double the price and if they still agree then DONT DO THE WORK as they have no intention of paying.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

In all fairness I would have adjusted the panel to suit and corrected the faults (within reason) as I went along. Also pointed it out to the customer.

Anyway regardless of that, in most trades its all down to word of mouth for future work and this won't be the only customer you'll have that won't be happy. I would do what has been said, show the customer the complaints and offer to rectify it (if you're able to) but not for free. If he still refuses to pay just take the shed down.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

...and advise he sends it back to the manufacturer.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Well if you want to go that far. Personally I'd take it down and pack it all up back the way I found it. He doesn't want to pay for the work so I'll take the work back.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

I've had this countless times over the years, with bathrooms, kitchens, etc etc, if I don't supply the materials, I make it very clear I won't be offering any warranty on them, I can only work with what I get supplied.

This is a general comment I know but the Asians are the worse for this, they will buy some cheap see through bath and wafer thin tiles off some equally cheap asian shop and expect the end result to look like a palace, it just don't happen.

Don't spend too long trying to correct this, you may get it perfect and he still won't be happy and not pay, I've had this too.

Point out the reviews on this shed, remind him you're not a charity and you did the best you could with the poor materials supplied and see how you get on.

Don't even waste your time taking it down if there's an issue, cut your losses and don't waste your time anymore.

Btw, they do recommend that the base is slightly larger than the shed, around 50mm all the way round normally.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Special moan just went there!
http://www.theblubber.com/wp-content.../bird_girl.jpg

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

I have offered to rectify it.

Trouble is I expect no matter how good I get the job done he will not be happy.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

I have also told him to google the shed reviews but he has found good reviews obviously (for the company that make the shed, but most are for other products!), so that doesn't really wash with him.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Then call it quits now.

I've never run my own business, but I have had customers like this who bought services from the companies I worked for. They were never ever ever ever happy no matter what you did or what you said.

Sometimes we would have saved alot of time and money if we had just given them a refund in the first place, rather than ploughing time and more money in trying to make them happy.

How much money does this person owe you and how likely do you think it is, that he will pay your bill at the end of the day.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

In the 6 years or so that I've been working as a handyman/plumber I've never had someone refuse to pay so I don't know what I'd do tbh.

Generally I will supply the materials that I need, if the customer wants to get there own stuff I'll point them in the direction of shops or websites that I know sell decent quality stuff. I did a job not so long ago and the taps the customer had bought were terrible quality, they felt more like plastic than brass, they were really really bad. I pointed this out to the customer but he still wanted them fitted. So I fitted them but with no guarantee on them.
Doesn't help you much now but might do in the future.

As for your situation now, if it was me I would print out the reviews of the shed he bought and show him. I would offer to try and make a good shed out of the bad one, but only on the proviso he pays for the extra materials. If you think he's not going to pay either way then just walk away and chalk it up as a job gone bad

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

I haven't read all the replies so sorry if this has been mentioned already.

I've done a few bits for other folk and If I don't source the materials then I make sure I tell them where to get them from. Might be helpful in future to do the same, even if it means you take them down to selco so they simply see the options. I know what its like though, folk don't like been told what something costs they much prefer to see it themselves even if as it often does its costs them more than it would had they bought through you.

A shed base should generally be bigger than the shed its taking, 50-100mm is fair enough.

When you ID'd the issue with the shed you should have called him and explained the likelyhood of it been a poor finish then checked he wanted you to continue. If he did and you did but he wasn't happy then tough **** to him.

What I'd be doing now though is weighing up what he owes against what it'll cost for you to resolve it.
If he owes £500 bit you can fix it for £100 then IMO fix it and waive the £100 on the understanding he pays the £500 upfeont, mutter some BS about that invoice been due and you need to balance the books/pay suppliers but basically if he doesn't pay it you can't sort it.
If on the other hand you're currently square then I would look at trimming down the battern on your base to make that good then shake hands and tell him "congrats I'm not even going to contest the shed feel free to never ask me to work for you again". Then report him on EVERY handyman forum/site etc to warn others he's a mugging moaner.

Unfortunatly some folk do know that if they make it hard enough for you then you will just walk away. Ascertain if you've got a chance of getting what you're owed, then question if he ever had an intention of paying anything.

Hope that's of some help/ inspiration - learn from it and move on.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

But him a penis enlarger and let him have it for free

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

want to build fallout a shed nobby?

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Contractually speaking he wouldn't have a leg to stand on if he hasn't paid you for the work done, and you've done what was requested of you.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

And the fact he couldn't even put up a flatpack shed. He still cries into his pillow every night over the memories of being bullied.... at boarding school.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

He supplied the shed all you did was build it. The issue is with himself for not doing his homework on the quality of it and the shed supplier. You did the base for it and if thats perfect then get the money for that. If he wants the shed returned as faulty id charge him to dismantle it. Dont let him push you into a corner and get the base for free.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Thanks for replies folks.
I am only about £100 down on materials, and only charged him £150 for labour so don't stand to lose much.

As a few of you have said, I should have told him it wasn't going to be a good shed when I was putting it together but one mans gold is another mans sh*t so I thought I would carry on and see what I ended up with.
This is also his argument, that I should have said half way through that it was crap. He claims now that I have put it together that he wouldn't be able to send it back because the supplier will say that I have damaged it, and that it is now a used item because it has been put up.

He already had the shed, and also said that he had had it for a little while. The thing that concerns me is if I try and make it fit by making a new roof panel (he suggested he could get a jig saw and cut bits off the existing roof panel, although it actually needs to be made slightly longer and out of square lol) and then the wind blows it over in a couple of months that I will be held accountable for that as well. Amongst the reviews I have read, the shed has fallen down, the roof has blown off.

He says it is not about the money, but is then constantly mentioning that it was £500 (for just the shed) so expects it to be perfect (although some reviews for same make of shed say they paid £230 for a 6 x 8 version of the shed).
He did ask what I would do if I was in his situation and I did say that I would have done my homework and checked out reviews of the shed in the first place.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Also, when he asked me for the quote, he asked for the materials, the base be laid, and the shed put up.
Upon going through the panels on the day of erecting the shed I came across some packs of internal shelving, that I had not quoted for. By the time of completing the shed I had already run over the time I had charged him for labour for a good few hours, I didn't put the shelving up. To be fair I should have mentioned this, and would have if he was in but he had gone to work.

This was brought up by him and when I told him he asked me to put the shed up only and not fit it out inside, that if I knew there were extra shelving it the quote would have been more, he said it was all part of the shed package.
Having been on their website, it is not part of the shed package, they are extra items that you have to add to the shed package, so am I right in refusing to put theses up? After all, he could probably do a better job than me lol.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Sounds to me weither you built it or not he'd struggle to return it simply due to the time elaspsed since purchase.
Name and shame the shed company please because I'm looking into one and wouldnt mind avoiding this firm.
Did he buy from them direct or from a re-seller?

RE the shelves:
hmmm its tricky, if I were putting a shed up for a mate and found shelves I'd assume they wanted the shelves fitting too so would have just done it. But for a paying customer who's bought something against my better judgement which turned out to be a nightmare of a job to construct and then had additional items in the packaging I'd be inclined to think he's pulling a fast one and tell them it'll be extra for the extras, especially as at this stage it looks unlikely you'll be getting any return business from them.

The guy sounds like a jobsworth, we all know someone like this and they're often a solitary person too stuck in their own ways to take advice which contradicts their own thoughts.
Did you get the fee for the labour, has he actually paid you any of the £250?

If you can see any reason in the bloke, anything which indicates he might be fair enough to reach an amicable resolve. Then I'd suggest you both square up whats owed right now, then take "putting it right" from there on out. I'd insist you cant be accountable for the shed after its built as its not a product you're personally familiar with.
No more than if he took his own brake pads to a garage and asked them to fit them, it simply doesn't work that way. If he cannot appreciate that then I wouldn't touch it, at least as it is now its un-fettled which means nothing you could have done could be accountable for any failure to its structure.

oh and +1 on the getting onto the shed company, get them informed of all this loss of earning potential damage to your reputation etc.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

They don't give a fook about their own reputation why would they care about someone else? Probably another bunch of fly by nights with a container full of crap from china.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

I am in the middle of a text conversation with customer as I type this, he is difficult to get hold of on the phone, only have his mobile, hasn't given me home number!

Homebase used to sell them but stopped, presumably because of the bad reviews they were getting.

I have told the customer (that hasn't paid anything yet) that I am prepared to make a new roof panel in situ so it fits the shed as he would like (the problem is the rear panel is half inch wider than front so roof splays out and doesn't meet at the top) but the colour match will probably not be exact as I don't know what wood preservative GBD use.

His reply "if you want to make it yourself feel free . . . as said before the frame will need to be changed as well as essentially this is the problem. When say same material also meant same colour! otherwise ull need to use original material"

To which I have replied "Ok it would be impossible to get exact colour match. I am not going to waste any more of my time and money correcting a manufacturing c0ck up and a very poor quality shed. I have been through a lot of the reviews on the site that you showed me and most of the good reviews are for a different product, the bad reviews are for the billyoh shed. I am prepared to walk away from this job without payment, not even the money I have spent on materials because, as I have said, if I had read the reviews I would not have taken it on."

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Which is probably exactly what he wants, free base built and shed constructed which he can bodge to make do for little cost. He's probably the type to have done this before to other tradesmen aswell. It's a difficult situation though, as the right thing to do for your reputation would be to try and sort a compromise but I doubt you'd get any thanks or indeed money out of him anyway so I'd like to think my reputation could stand me being a bit naughty by getting back to the shed and dropping it. It would make me feel just a little bit better about being shafted out of money and time, as lets face it, not only have you lost money doing the job for him, it's time wasted that you could have been on another job.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

He has got back to me saying his issue is I didn't prepare it properly by laying all the panels out and measuring every single one of them to check they were correct to the exact millimetre, so that he could have ordered more wood or cut the wood himself to fit!!
He then says there is nothing wrong with the quality its and mentioned how much it cost him again.
Says he doesn't want random wood that doesn't match (even though most have to add wood to strengthen the shed and I was going to use same size and type of wood anyway), and that he will have to pay someone else to rectify my work.

I've told him he can pay the supplier to erect the shed, but they are embaraced to put the sheds up because of the quality.

He replied by saying the shed is just wood!! how can it be bad quality?? (lol, gives you some idea of what I'm dealing with here) followed immediately with sometimes you have to make slight adjustments to these flatpacks . . . u shouldn't have to but it does happen!! (which is a slight contradiction to the previous sentence).

I then told him I could rectify the roof but I don't think he is going to be happy with whatever I do.
I then asked if he could honestly tell me that he was happy his shed was worth £500, and that there is a massive variation in quality of wood.

He then replies saying that the quality of wood is very good, and that he is very happy with the quality of the shed, just not the way it was put together. He says he has been extremely reasonable so far and I am making him feel like I am being unreasonable asking for an expensive shed to be finished correctly!
Either finish it using the materials provided or he will find someone who can.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

The way that's going I'd tell him I was sorting it (bullsh*t through my teeth) go and strip the lot down, and remove the base.
General principle.

Me and my mate once towed someone's car back to their house when they wouldn't pay their bill at his garage with the engine in the boot.

Can't let people get away with taking the p*ss and beating them to death is illegal.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Materials remain the property of yours until they are paid for in full.

Your choices... walk away, anyone with any sense who may hear a bad review from this man should be able to make up their own mind.

Take down the shed, remove your materials and write to him explaining why.

secret third option - fire bomb the shed

fourth option - write to him from a different return address as a solicitors letter explaining that if they dont pay they will be seen in small claims court - you wont take it that far but sometimes an official looking letter makes ppl realise they need to stop being ****s and just pay up for the work done.

good luck

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

They way it is going to be honest I'd rather not touch it. The customer has contradicted himself enough times by saying wood is just wood how can it be bad quality, and then sometimes you have to make adjustments.
He has said I didn't follow the instruction and when I told him I had he called me a liar, but he then said the shelving pack was part of the pack, but looking at the website it isn't!

He has said he will have to pay someone to rectify the work if I don't, I just don't know where I stand legally if I down tools without payment? Have a feeling he will try sending a bill for that!

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

As to the quality of the shed, its made of 8mm thick tongue and groove (although I think this is a little optimistic!) the frame work is about 1" and a half square, and the roof purlins and floor joists are only 1".
The back panel which is made up of two panels is so week if you push the middle of it bows out.
Make your own mind up of the quality.

The sheds that I build are made of frames that are either 38 x 63mm or 38 x 89mm cls studwork timber frames and roof joists. You can walk on these roofs, with the customers shed, do that and it would fold like a paper bag.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

If I paid £500 for a shed I'd expect it to be the nuts, I think what matters here is this guys been ripped off buying the shed in the first place, either that or he's lying regarding what he paid.

2 Questions:
Are you going to pay me what you owe for the base materials?
Do you want me to make the best of the bad job fixing as best I can the shed?

If he says no to the first then get and get the flags and stones back, the shed sounds very much like it could be lifted and moved off the base with 2 blokes without issue. If you can get in his garden that's genuinely what I'd be doing at this stage.
+1 to the materials remain your possessions until he pays for them, to put it another way. If you'd left your tools behind (your possessions also) you'd have no gripe about going and taking those back, so why are the flags any different? If he's not paid you back for them then they're yours, go get them back.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

Bolox to it Owenski, like I said the worry is the comeback I might get from it in the first place, and only having lost a oner and a few days I would rather not waste any more time with him.
He has phoned, and asked if I am prepared to redo it or whether he should get someone else in, but as a customer I have lost any *trust that I had in him* so have told him to keep his money and get someone else to do it.
I know on reflection this looks bad on me, and I know its a bit c**tish to drop someone else in the position I have been put in but I really can not be doing with it.

* I don't want to get into personal attacks, but lets just say I saw a fella driving around the local vicinity in a vehicle and my instant thought was not a good one. When I went to look at the job I thought oh god!
I really should trust my judgement in future!

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

I'd bet you're not the first and certainly not the last he's done it too, I've only had one bad payer, a mad as a box of frogs woman who did me for £900, she wouldn't even let me rectify the 'issues' of which there wasn't any, but I had to accept it as it was a £6k job.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

I would just be glad to get that monkey off my back, but am I responsible for any comeback?

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

warped, twisted, badly cut, poorly sized...


no, no you don't I sold forest fencing sheds for 7 years as well as assembling them for display at least one-two a year and the only thing you should ever need to do is trim the odd facing strip, the main construction should be perfect,

500 is a bloody expensive shed, no wonder he was expecting quality. Just seems he hasnt got it but without seeing the shed itself I couldn't say.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

has there been any paperwork, written quotations, order forms from your side?

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

He doesn't sound like the sort to spend money and time going through a small claims court, not when you can turn round at the end and show you lost money on the deal and so can't afford any recompense.

Re: Advice sought regarding a work situation
 

For £150 I think you're safe.
The cost of pursuing you (if its even possible) is likely to cost more than the claim so not much point in it for him.