Dead bike
 

Hi
I have an sv650 curvy 99....I shorted some light wires and now the bike is dead,no ignition...all fuses are good inc the main 30amp....I shorted the solenoid and bike turns over...could I have fried the ecu?

Re: Dead bike
 

What do you mean by dead? Do you have any lights? Panel lights, indicators, brake lights when the ignition is turned on. Which wires did you short and what condition are they in now?

Re: Dead bike
 

Calm down n take a deep breath:smt119
I dont think your bike has an ECU not like the later pointies anyway. A fuse should have blown when you did this so double check them all with a meter.... Also can you identify the colours of the wires that shorted?

Re: Dead bike
 

Thanks...im adding lights to it....no there are no panel lights etc....and all fuses are good.....would a dead ignition box cause these symtems?

Re: Dead bike
 

Sounds like a fuse to me. As glang says, check them all with a meter.

Re: Dead bike
 

Yes you would think a fuse...but all good?...

Re: Dead bike
 

Maybe a wire or connection has burnt out - unusual as thats what the fuses are supposed to prevent. Let us know which wires you think shorted and we can have a look on the wiring diagram.....

Re: Dead bike
 

I'm assuming you've blown the lighting fuse, but do not replace it until the short circuit has been resolved.


Providing you have a voltmeter you can do some basic checks.

1. Check that the battery terminals are both securely connected, and you have around 12.7V at the battery

2. Check whether there is a 12V supply to the fusebox.

Connect the -ve lead of the voltmeter to the -ve of the battery, then unplug a fuse and use a bent paper-clip or similar to check whether there is 12V to one end of the fuse

3a. If there is no 12V supply in the fusebox, go back and do the same check at the main fuse. You've probably blown the main fuse as well as the lighting fuse.

3b. If you have a 12V supply to the fusebox, check the ground block. Most bikes have an earth connector block. Inspect this, and confirm that there is a working ground connection by connecting the voltmeter between +ve on the battery and one of the blade connectors. If there's no ground connection you might have a corroded connector which has overheated when you shorted the lighting circult.

4. Download a copy of the wiring diagram and work through it methodically starting with the ignition switch. Check each fuse in turn, verifying that there is 12V supply to each part and replacing fuses where necessary. Also check the ground connection by using the ohms setting on your voltmeter between the ground connection and the -ve on the battery (should be less than 1 ohm). When you get to the lighting fuse, skip it and do that once the bike is working normally.

5. Track down the fault in the lighting circuit, and once it's resolved replace the lighting fuse.

Just my thoughts,

Keith.

Re: Dead bike
 

Thanks Keith.....the wire I shorted was the black wire with white stripe?

Re: Dead bike
 

No, that's a ground (earth) wire. You may have shorted something to that but shorting that to ground will do nothing.

Red wires will have 12V all the time
Orange/with a coloured stripe will be switched 12V

... but there will be other wires with power on them too, depending on where you were fiddling and whether the ignition was on.

Re: Dead bike
 

Its possible that with the flow of current through that earth wire its now disconnected somewhere from the negative terminal of the battery (although the frame is still earthed via the main earth strap to the battery). You could try temporarily connecting the black/white stripe wire to a good frame earth point somewhere to see if any other components work. Dont start the bike like this as its not a solution but would indicate where to start searching for the problem......

Re: Dead bike
 

not so.

everything is positive until it gets to the negative plates in the battery.

there is no such thing as a "ground or earth" on DC electrics. its either live or off.

simple test is a bulb test. you can cut any live or negative (as long as there is return power) wire and insert a bulb and the bulb will illuminate. this proves that its positive power on a so called negative wire.

what blows a fuse is DC current not voltage. if there is a short in the wiring it saturates the current causing either the wiring to melt or a fuse to blow. you can actually have shorts and have no ill effect.

if wiring in a new bulb then its best to wire in parallel. never wire a bulb in series. if you wire in series and it blows then you loose power to everything on that line. most things in DC vehicle electrics are wired in parallel for that very reason.

a "ground or earth" wire is a wire connected to usually a copper stake in the ground and is a safety feature of AC wiring.

............................

to answer the OP's question. no the ECU has no effect on power. if you have lost power to everything then its a fuse or you have melted the main power feed from the ignition. if the bike was ok before you messed with the wiring then go over what you have done as you have done it wrong.

Re: Dead bike
 

I think I put the black wire with white stripe to positive....and the white wire with black strip to negative??

Re: Dead bike
 

define "black/white to positive"? e.g. direct to battery or other......

in reality wiring a bulb into an existing circuit it should not matter which way round it goes as the filament in the bulb is just a "wire" and it cares not. if wiring in an LED it does matter as an LED will only light up in one direction anode(+)>cathode(-).

Re: Dead bike
 

Yes its an LED rear light.....its a bit complicated because the sv650 in question is a flat tracker....that I am adding lights to....most of the road stuff,ie lights,indicators ,dash with ignition lights etc are not there...it runs a day time MOT...I going to run a inline light switch as most of the handlebar switch gear is missing.....told you it was complicated!..:-)….anyhow the bike was running fine,totally reliable....what I did was put the two said wires directly to the battery,there was a spark....then nothing...I must of put the negative and positive the wrong way round.....anyhow as I said the fuses are all good...have been changed for new ones several times....I have bought a new solenoid,,there quite cheap..and will borrow a CDI unit to check if its that...I take it a fried cdi unit will cause the same problem?

Re: Dead bike
 

what you might have done is created a "loop", this would be like connecting a wire to the positive then trying to connect it directly to the negative.. it will spark as there is nothing using any power or a switch inline. which i would presume that it has fried existing wiring.

it matters not the bike it only matters how its wired.

you need to explain a bit more. about where you got the white/black wires from e.g. existing wiring and how it was wired up e.g. did you take the existing wiring and connect it directly to the battery...

Re: Dead bike
 

http://i67.tinypic.com/fc0l54.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/fodfsp.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/2usic79.jpg

Does anyone know what this is...it is in the end of this connector..has a + on one blade and 0.2 on it....

Re: Dead bike
 

Bibio...yes it was the wires coming straight from the loom at the rear of the bike.....when i touched the wires the other way round on the battery the lights worked....but for some reason!!!!???...i swopped them round,and a spark at the positive side of the battery and that was that...

Re: Dead bike
 

ok.. wires that are existing on a loom are almost always connected to the battery already. if you have connected them back too the battery again then yes you have created a loop and more than likely melted a wire somewhere in the loom.

you do know that there is a "fuse box" on the bike and not just the big main solenoid fuse.

its sit down with a DMM time... lol

Re: Dead bike
 

Yes have checked the fuses in the fuse box..all good....a friend is coming round tomorrow with a multi meter to hopefully find the problem!...:-)

Re: Dead bike
 

Whilst you may be correct in your pedantic way. We tend to connect one side of the battery to the chassis and refer to that as ground. Assuming the negative side of the battery is bonded to the chassis most people refer to the vehicle as negative earth, any positive wire touching the chassis will cause a short.

So, assuming his SV is negative earth like most vehicles are these days, touching the black wire/white stripe (if it's a Suzuki harness wire) will not cause a short.

Re: Dead bike
 

seeker...i did touch the wire and nothing happened?...…apart from the other possibilitys,fried wires etc...is there a good chance that the cdi would of fried....can they or is it highly unlikely?...

Re: Dead bike
 

Not so.
A DC system can have a ground or earth if one of the supply terminals is connected to 'earth'. Some cars used to be positive earth and now are negative earth same as our SVs

Re: Dead bike
 

lets get it straight.... there is no fekin earth/ground on a vehicle.. if there is can you please tell me where its coming from as a battery or rectified DC has either positive or negative. what everyone calls a ground/earth on a vehicle is actually a COM (common).

its this magical ground/earth palaver that is confusing people as they are looking for this mythical thing when testing vehicle electrics. its not there its all positive and either on or off.

what people commonly refer to as positive or negative earth on a vehicle is actually the difference of the COM (common) connection point. it can be either negative (negative earth vehicle) positive (positive earth vehicle) but both are a common point in which power can either "flow or return". the difference is the frame on a positive earth vehicle is connected to the positive battery terminal so how can it be an earth/ground.......... same goes for a negative earth vehicle....

there is no ground/earth is a COMMON.

Re: Dead bike
 

I think theyre just different names for the same thing: ground, earth, return, common are all just paths for the electrons (AC or DC) to complete the loop. Sometimes theyre for normal use (as the frame of our bikes are for the starter motor return), in other cases just emergency use as in domestic 240v earth wires and then also the actual soil which is used for the high voltage return to power stations.

Re: Dead bike
 

It's a frame of reference, you're just being pedantic. What next, arguing about electron flow versus conventional current flow through a diode or whether holes move in a bipolar junction transistor?

We use the expression so people know which way is up, it's a convention. You may not like it but it's a common industry nomenclature which is why when ordering parts for an old British bike you have to define whether it's positive or negative earth since they switched over in the 70s. I remember buying car radios and specifying pos or neg earth, it's not a new phenomenon. In your world you'd specify a "negative common" electronic ignition for example or would you say electronic ignition for a negative earth?

To hammer it home: "What everyone (except bibio) calls a ground/earth is a common". maybe you need to reevaluate your position :rolleyes:

Re: Dead bike
 

Looks like the rectifier diode.


First thing to do is get a wiring diagram. Follow the lines from the battery positive on the drawing and check the various component points on the circuit that should be live. Looking for burned wires or connectors as you go.

Re: Dead bike
 

Cars and other vehicles refer to the battery polarity connected to bodywork as ground or earth just to keep things simple ( ground normally used by Americans ) - cars used to be positive earth until the manufacturer's found that it cause corrosion of the bodywork, so they connected the battery negative to bodywork and prevented the corrosion. The term common is normally used in electronics and DC industrial wiring to identify the return because it probably will not be connected to earth or any metalwork for various reasons.

The fact that the negative battery terminal on cars and bikes is connected to the bodywork / frame means that the term earth or ground makes sense to vast majority of people.

There is also in electrical / electronic terms an important term wrt ( with respect to ) so although both ends of a load are positive compared to the battery or supply common ( of whatever polarity ) one end will be more positive (or negative) wrt the other end, for example the anode of a diode has to be positive wrt cathode by a certain voltage for current to flow, the other thing is potential ( voltage ) difference or pd, and it is pd that is used to calculate current flow in parts of a circuit.

High impedance voltmeters are great on electronics because they only very minimally affect the circuit being tested.

The problem using high impedance voltmeters to measure voltage on other things is that they draw minute amounts of current, and can measure a ' standing voltage' that will disappear as soon as any current is drawn, a good way to increase load drawn by a meter is to put a 12volt bulb across meter probes that will draw a current and you are then measuring the pd across a load that is passing current this will show up any extra resistance in the circuit outside your bulb as a lower than 12 volts across the bulb, as when current is being drawn any resistance in circuit will cause a voltage drop across it, which will show as a lower voltage across your bulb.

Re: Dead bike
 

Thank you all for your help....I will report back with what the issue was ,when I find it!!!...:-)….

Re: Dead bike
 

sorry we couldn't help. Your bike seems to have a few wiring modifcations judging by the splices seen in your pix which makes it nigh on impossible to troubleshoot remotely unless the new wires can be identified. Please do let us know what you find.

Re: Dead bike
 

I hate wiring issues - good luck tracking it down.

Re: Dead bike
 

i'm not trying to be pedantic i'm trying to let readers understand how DC vehicle wiring works. its a common misconception by a large majority of the public that a "ground/earth" on a vehicle has no power so is never tested. if people replace the word ground/earth with common they might remember that its also live. most people when testing vehicle wiring with a DMM/CT only test the "live" wire from end to end but completely forget to test the "common". they also use either the frame or battery negative as the return (common) when testing a "live" wire, this in turn completely misses out an important part of testing.

once you understand that there is no earth/ground and start thinking return/common then you will find DC vehicle wiring much easier to work with. every single wire is either on or off regarding power and that includes the common.

a common is a convenient point/collection of wires in which to return power to the negative battery terminal and most of your vehicle electrical circuits use them especially true of lighting circuits.

Re: Dead bike
 

well potato, potatto, looks like weve failed on this one.....

Re: Dead bike
 

yes, lets discuss centripetal force versus centrifugal force next, it will be just as useful :smt104

Re: Dead bike
 

Actually electron flow is from negative to positive, this means that the cables on the positive side are empty until a connection is made to negative - this is a good thing as empty cables run cooler than full ones. The connection of negative to frame acts as a heatsink.

Not sure how centripital / centrifugal forces affect electrons but l I know is that my lights and ignition still work when I go around a corner so I have reason to believe any effect can be ignored. Maybe 6volt systems used to be affected as they had strange problems.

Re: Dead bike
 

Me neither, but the point was that physicists say there's no such thing as a centrifugal force it is actually a centripetal force but the public think differently and it is a common vernacular. It matched this thread perfectly.

I know, it's just a shame that the arrow on the diode symbol points the "wrong" way for electron flow.

So, do holes move in a bjt?

Re: Dead bike
 

Actually electron flow is from negative to positive, correct but you missed the important part.. inside the battery plates.

this means that the cables on the positive side are empty until a connection is made to negative - ermm nope. both negative and positive are live depending on if there is a device in between for instance, a switch and lamp. if you insert a switch and lamp to "length" of wire then connect the switch end to the positive battery terminal and connect the lamp to the negative battery terminal. the cable running from the positive battery terminal with the switch in the off position is "positive live" with voltage running in it. the cable from the other side of the switch that is connected to the lamp and out the other side to the negative battery terminal is "negative 0v". when you flick the switch too on then everything becomes "live" and lights the lamp.

this is a good thing as empty cables run cooler than full ones. yup 0V cables do run cooler as there is no "power" going through them.

The connection of negative to frame acts as a heatsink. nope.... as the cable running the "power" is a separate entity so unless you can run the cable on top of or inside the metal then it will not have a heatsink value. what you can do is use the frame as a "giant wire" and a COM to connect the otherwise bundle of "negative" wires. the frame does not act like a heatsink pulling heat away from wires.

i think i have said enough on the matter so if you want to keep arguing then get your facts right ;) :D

Re: Dead bike
 

and in a vehicle we usually tie one side of the battery to the chassis as the return path and we define this as either negative earth or positive earth. :) (even though it is isolated from the ground)

We stopped using positive earth because of galvanic corrosion.


Irrespective of definitions, we couldn't fix his bike.

Re: Dead bike
 

And the connection between centripetal force and electrical power is.... the greek letter omega.

The calculation of centripetal force uses the angular velocity, whose symbol is lower case omega ω (at least when I studied physics).

The calculation of electrical power uses the resistance in ohms. The SI symbol for ohms is an upper case omega. Ω

None of which brings us any closer to fixing a dead bike.

Re: Dead bike
 

Your reply indicates that you took what I posted seriously :confused:

Irony and sarcasm do not come over well on forum posts.

@seeker, according to Newtonian laws centrifugal force need to exist to balance centripital force otherwise the centripital force would push the object towards centre of rotation until it reached the centre, and why do liquids and gasses behave differently to solids when spun around a fixed point, where the heavier parts ( example, the cells in blood and the uranium atoms in gas) move to the furthest point from axis, and are not pushed inwards by centripital force. And how does a spin drier work ?