BMW cars............
 

This is an unusual rant........ in defence of BMW drivers and owners.

My wifes' car is a BMW 325Ci Coupe. My company car at the moment is a 330i Sport Saloon and changes almost weekly for, you see, I am employed by BMW.
I have worked in the car industry for years, for BMW (and briefly Audi) and love what I do.
I enjoy bikes, cars, karts - anything with an engine really, and would like, just once, to use this forum to state publicly to several people, that not all BMW drivers are idiots.
In fact, most are bloody nice people, just like you or I and (GASP) most are good, couteous drivers.
Yes, there are those who are nutters, rude, ignorant, chaotic, occasionally nasty and repugnant. But, this is true of all walks of life, is seen in all models of car and even the case (intollerable to some) of many a biker.
So please, those who rant on about BMW's take a moment to reflect on the time you were cut up by a battered Micra, abused by a kid scooter or had an off moment yourself and angered another road user by your actions and then stop spouting a load of bull.
Blandly spouting that all BMW owners are w*nkers is like the stereotypical mutterings that the SV 'is a girls bike'. Utter nonsense really that is due to lack of understanding, lack of experience or more sinister form of ignorance.

Now, the onslaught of the above begin shortly I am sure, but at last I have said my piece.




Cheers, Si

Only going by my experience on a bike I am afraid, and most of the BMW drivers in London are aggressive, "have to be at the front" types - even if that means undertaking me while I am already in the SP30 dangerzone, almost hitting me.

Other examples include approaching the Hammersmith flyover in the middle lane from Barons Court (so would end up in the left hand lane on the flyover itself) seeing that I am going to get slowed down seriously in the lane I am in (some people just dont seem to realise that you need to drop a gear/increase your acceleration when you hit a slope), I check out the lane to my right, see its clear (but is that the "devil badge" on the grill of the guy behind me in that lane) put on my indicator, and my the time I am checking it out again, he's along side me blocking my maneuver.

Now yes, maybe I need to be more assertive, check mirror, blindspot, indicate and go (instead of my newbieish Mirror, blindspot, indicate, mirror, blindspot, move routine of the moment) and perhaps he doesn't want to be "stuck" behind a CG125, but its ridiculous behaviour.

Yes there are good BMW drivers, but there are also a class of them that didn't buy based on build quality etc, but on speed and image, and because they found the pen1s enlargment products they bought from spam emails didn't work.

David

PS (I really liked my Dads 5-series)

I wouldn't ever have a problem with someone, just because of the car they drive. It's the way someone drives that would wind me up.

I don't hate BMWs (or the people that drive them) I'm fairly dispassionate about the whole thing; it's just that more BMW drivers in my experiences (and presumably others'- hence the reputation) have done stupid things (and also, shown less courtesy/given way when they weren't obliged to) and driven more aggresively than those in any other brand of car. The increase in the number of "cheaper" BMWs like the 3 series models on the road has somewhat lessened this (I find they're generally driven more courteously than other beemers).

Out of interest, it'd be nice to know how you, as a BMW driver think this reputation has (presumably unfairly) come about. Before you answer, it's not jealousy or envy of you motor; if it was, I'd say "people in Bentleys drive like ****s" :lol: (they don't - the ones I've seen have all been exemplary). Do you honestly think the whole thing is some urban myth perpetuated by the media, or does it at least have some root in truth?

Of course there are exceptions to this general stereotype; yourself no doubt included. As it happens, probably the most cautious driver I know (60K miles out of a set of tyres! :shock: ) drivers a beemer.

should this not be in idle banter?

*runs and hides*

Exactly on the money!

Unfortunately, my opinion of BMW drivers is (as has already been said) a reflection of what I've seen on the road and nothing more. By far the worst are the 4x4 BMWs.

As has also been said, there are exceptions to the assumption that BMW drivers are blind (I prefer that reasoning than they're just idiotic). One such exception I see almost everyday on my way to work. It also breaks another generalisation, as it's female driver! :shock: It's a fairly old, beemer, but in good condition, and driven by someone that works in another department in my company. First time I followed her my reaction was "Oh great, another BMW to sit behind, best keep my distance." But I have to say, I was (and still am) seriously impressed by how defensive her driving is. She almost definately drives better than I do.

I took the time to tell her that she's a great driver & she has apparently not done any form of advanced driver training. Now I find there's 1 BMW on the road that I'm happy to trott along behind.

PS. Yes, I know my thinking should be the same for all cars, but the reality is, it's not. Some cars I'm extra cautious of, and no, it's not just limited to BMWs.

Umm, yes they are nice. I got to drive my new boss's 5-series, cant remember if it was the M5 or just 5 but it was very nice and very quick with the typical BMW rattle and growl when you put your foot down. I also got to drive the X5 4.4, haaaa niceeee.

I am unsure why the tenet is a popularly held belief. Partly I think, due to the sort of buyers we had in the late 80's when the 3 series began to be popular with the corporate/company car owner.

A lot of people found themselves in a 'flash' BMW (normally a bog standard 316 that couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding) and thrashed the hell out of them.
I think there is a degree of jelousy but this is a tiny minority. The same type of people who close up in traffic to stop a filtering biker!

There are some monster cars in our range and, yes, they are driven hard by many a driver. Again, no more so than many a bike on a Sunday afternoon.

But I generally think the stigma is utter nonsense!

I count 4 votes to your one Simon.......

David

I'm going to play nice on this one (unusual I know). Surely simon's vote counts for 10 of ours.

Mainly as he has to suffer the experience of prolonged exposure to the general BMW driving community :lol:

I disagree with your last comment. Making that 5 to 1 now I believe :wink: :P :lol:

I think the stigma is deserved for a lot of BMW drivers. But I do realise that doesnt apply to all, like power ranger bikers who hoon about dangerously give us all a bad rep that doesnt really apply to all bikers.

But you hit the nail on the head with your first sentence when you said "due to the sort of buyers we had" and imo, still have. BMW and Mercs are still status cars and with that you will attract bad drivers in a higher proportion than other cars.

Also, the belief the car has better performance that it has is probably why most of the speeding tailgaters I encounter are BMWs and Mercs. I think there is an overbelief in the engineering quality that people think its perfectly acceptable and they can stop even when driving 5 feet away from you at 80mph. :evil:

Im fully aware drivers of other cars can be just as blind and dangerous, but ime it has been predominantly BMW and Merc drivers that have caused me problems. I dont automatically presume though ALL BMW/Merc drivers are bad. :D

Obviously not all BMW drivers are w@nkers.

However, in my experience as well, a BMW driver is the most likely one to be a t@sser of all vehicle types.

Maybe not statisically accurate, but definately my feeling and obviously that of many others.

I dont have the same feeling with Mercs or Jags, so it must be something to do with a significant minority of the type of person who buys/drives a BMW.

Maybe not a fact of life, but clearly an opinion based on the experience of many bikers.....

Stereoytypical :P

Well, I'm not really that bothered by BMWs, for me its all sorts; Volvos, farmer's pickup trucks (usually with a barking dog and a bale of hay in the back), Land Rovers towing caravans, Volvos towing caravans, lorries, taxies, etc. But the worst by far is the 16 yr old **** on his scooter ripping around the town with tracksuit and his helmet undone.

Of course, I ride a yellow motorbike with the headlights on so I probably dazzle and p*ss off all the ladies doing their make-up in the mirrors of their Ford Focus anyway.

:P

aren't there loads of stereotypes for each type of car though? the white van man, the repmobile on the motorway, the young chav in his F reg nova, the older chav with his civic...

and of course other ones already mentioned in this thread, e.g. scooter kid, school run mum, taxis, etc etc.

i don't think crap drivers in bmw's are any more prevalent than in any other car (not for me, in london, anyway)

p.s. i owned only bmw's from jun 99 - jan 05 so i may be a bit biased :wink:

Because its true. Alot of BMW drivers are ********s, and as a BMW driver it's a stigma you're stuck with I'm afraid.

But stereotypes are generally based on what the majority of that group actually demonstrate as behaviour to people. If this group of drivers didnt as a majority demonstrate the behaviour people wouldnt associate BMW drivers/Merc drivers/school run mums etc with the bad driving theyre associated with.

We all know there are exceptions to this - but the behaviour only becomes associated to this degree when its been demonstrated sufficiently to people to generally be ****ed off with the driving by these groups of people.

For me it varies where I am. Mercs are the weapon of choice down the A13. Other places its BMWs [motorways particularly]. Ashford during the week about 8.30am and 3.30 pm its 4x4s and school run mums. But the stereotypes still have a basis in truth :P :lol:

Before I bought my SV I was a club cyclist riding 200 miles a week in all weathers and for many years we as a club had been amazed at the antics of said BMW drivers - get cut up and what do you know its a BMW, spot a BMW ahead or behind and be prepared to take avoiding action.

You notice these things more on a pushbike as you are much more vulnerable to being knocked off by inconsiderate driving.

I didn't realise that other roaduser groups were aware of the phenomenon until I read your forum, we'd come to that conclusion entirely independently, so weren't influenced by the media stereotyping stigma thing.

Obviously not all BMW drivers are bad but there is definitely a higher proportion of bad (aggressive) drivers in that group, by the way the bike club secretary had a BMW.

Re: BMW cars............
 

You just get paid too much!!!! [-( :lol:

And BMW drivers seem to be the most likely to want to race me off the lights....
.... Could be an Essex thing

Simon, you're quite right. After 3 years in and around London I can say with honesty there is no one brand of car driven worse than any other. If anything, it's the age and value of the car which is the pertinent factor.

OMG - I expected a barage of negatives, and in the main that is what I got but to be branded as an ******** by association is the best yet, many thanks Flamin, many thanks.

Umh....

I'm wandering if that some of us expect a BMW to drive poorly and that therefore because of this when we come across a BMW on the road we expect the driver to something moronic. So we observe minutely every aspect of the drivers behaviour and perhaps maybe are over critical. When he or she makes a small tiny mistake we say "Aha you drive like a pratt etc etc" because they fulfill the stereotype that we have of BMW drivers.

Whereas the same small mistake by a driver of say a Ford Mondeo we'd be more likely to shrug off and ignore.

Maybe I feel like this because I'd quite like to own a BMW. I'd like an M5, I'd debadge it and drive around and nobody would be the wiser for what it was. Nice 8)

i looked at a 318 today on an 03 plate for 10k is that a good price? i like em :D its either the bmw or a toyota avensis.

Is the 318 a 4 pot or a 6 pot motor. Personally I think a BMW with a 4 pot motor in it is just wrong.

lyn i do agree to an extent - in that at some point that stereotype was established, whether it is true now is another matter. actually what i was trying to say was more that if you pick pretty much any vehicle on the road you can have a pop at them about some stereotypical behaviour, i think what fizzwheel says might be true too though.

should be a 2.0litre 4 pot if they haven't changed the engines much in the last few years...

318 is a 2.0l 4 cylinder, 320 is a 2.2l 6 cylinder and my preference is for 6 cylinder models.
Prices will vary on spec, mileage, condition, service history, colour, etc.

Wanna know what the most popular car is on our company lease scheme?

BMW 320d chosen by arrogant, aggressive total toss pot middle managers. It explains it all really.

Nah not branding you an ******** at all, I'm sure you're not. But alot of people who see you behind the wheel of a BMW on the road wont know that and assume you are. All I'm sayin'.

yea 4 pot, i dont know that much about them :?

Ever thought about that your riding/driving technique changes when you come across BMWs, Mercs or other 'Executive saloons'? As opposed to pointing the dirty finger and using the dated Cliché and saying “they’re in the wrong, driving a BMW, must be a w@nker…”

Notice how the majority of people who own a BMW say that they don't have any problems with other BMW drivers, that’s because they probably don't react to seeing them on the road as opposed to people who don't own them. Must be an involuntary habit…

Even when I’m driving submissively, I get other road users acting aggressively towards me. My parents are both BMW drivers as well, and they also notice a different reaction from when they drive another car.

If you live in London, and are annoyed about the ‘BMW persona’ of always wanting to be first….you have to remember everyone wants to be first while driving around in cities cos it takes too bloody long to get anywhere

Anyway the REAL w@nkers on the road are Volvo drivers...obviously!

BMWs all the way, best cars on the market!

75% of people that give me grief on the road, be it on the bike or in the car, drive a BMW. In fact, let me narrow that down a bit more, "drive a 3 series BMW". 5, 6 & 7 series (even 8's) are no worse than any other car.

I have had 2 incidents in the last 3 weeks, one on bike, one in car, both 3 series drivers, both caused me to take action (The w*****r in the 330 this evening on the M25 managed to get me into a stoppie as he changed lanes, no signals, no warning).

If you drive a 3 series then you have to take the baggage it comes with... Personally I feel that I don't drive badly enough to own one :wink:

I'll also add that it only seems to be in this country, 3 series drivers in Europe are as good/bad as all the others.

.

mmm intresting :?

I just picked up a new to me '86 325e to replace my '82 320i

the old E21 has 325,000 miles and still runs the ballz it got hit in the rear end and crunched the left rear quarter from the rear axle back, it still goes down the road straight, so I've been driving it when my SV wasn't appropriate transportation

just found the E30 last week, cheap , seems to run good, but I ain't driven it much yet, I prefer to ride unless it's not practical

318's are a 1.8 litre 4

I prefer the 318 over a 6

the 318 is a high reving motor and much ligher weight than the 6s they are more balanced and handle better .. and just like the underpowered SV, I think you can get thru the twisties quicker with the little engine

the M3s are still 4s afik

the 6s are more suited to the 5 series imho

I used to have an ace BMW when I was loaded.

now I drive a corsa..





I am still a **** !!

you'd be right if it was 1990 :wink: however around e46 time the 318i became a 2.0l, imo because it was underpowered! the e30 318i for instance only had 115hp, even the 318iS only had 136hp.
you never hear people really pushing the e30 4 pot over the 6, but in your case you must be talking about either the m10 (modded!!! this was the basis of the 1500hp turbo f1 engines they had) or the m42 iS engine because the m40 just isn't very good, each to their own though.

definitely agree that the iS is slightly better on the handling, but then it comes with the mtech suspension, etc, and slightly better weight distribution iirc due to the 4 pot.

m3's haven't been 4 pots since the e30 - the e36 non evo and evo were both 6's.

:)

Re: BMW cars............
 

You expect anything more? :wink:

Re: BMW cars............
 

It's the BMW riding motorcylists that are the real menace. Hooligans, the lot of them.
:rant:

;)

yes, I'm still living in a world of E30s, my son's 318 has the M42 motor and my old E21 had the M10 motor in 1.8 size, the early years of the E21 has the 2.0 version of the M10

When I moved to Ireland (late 90s) there was not that much money around, not many BMWs. My irish mates all thought BMWs were great, pinacle of german engineering and all that, they couldn't understand my englishman's prejudice against them.

Ireland has boomed since and lots more BMWs started appearing on the road. A mate bought one, he loved it. But interestingly, attitudes started to change, the image of BMW started to move to that it has in the UK. My mate sold his BM recently, he had someone kick and dent his door last year, and was noticing people being hostile to him on the road. He didn't like the image BMW were getting and he wanted out. Now has a Focus.

So while I'd agree that not all BMW drivers are bad, they do seem to attract a certain type of person that gives them a bad name, that has happened and changed their image in Ireland, and thats nothing to do with historical prejudice.

I see Audi heading that way now, and its because they've sold too many TTs and A4 ragtops to the same type of BMW/Merc jock. Shame, because I fancy an A4

I don't buy the jealousy thing, no gripes with Porsche or Aston drivers.

i had an e30 320i from 99->04 :) have to say no m3 looks quite as...purposeful as the e30 m3. i just realised you're in the states which iirc never got the m40, or very few of them - the std 318i had the m42 motor as you mention...

are you on the zone by any chance? www.e30zone.co.uk?