Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Rant coming up :eek:

Not entirely a serious thread mind but just had a thought regards tyres been classed as rubbish. Talking road here.

I've recently been riding on a tyre which universally is agreed to be crap and really haven't had mcuh of an issue with it.

Either I'm as smooth as a smooth thing or folks are just too cack handed etc and are just passing the buck onto the tire. The thing in all honesty is that I don't even class myself as that smooth a rider.

To be honest, I'm not that good but I can't help but sometimes think "what am I doing wrong....." . I understand you have to be confident in your tyres but the way we would sometimes speak about certain tyres, one would think they are made of marble.

Have bikers turned into a bunch of tyre worshipping wotsits :) and all problems is the fault of the tyre and not the pilot. No one interested in gain "feel" anymore :( ;) .

One of my personal dislikes is new riders being negatives thoughts about with regards to suspension or tyres. They've only been on a bike a day and already their heads get filled with negatives. Yeah, I blame the internet :)


:rant: okkkk...I know I'm crap at rants :smt003

Loved this post from Lozzo and I'm not even that old. Hehe, just jesting mate;)


Ben

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Take the standard Dunlops fitted to the pointy when I bought it (220's) and a novice road rider who's used to off road riding (that'd be me then).

Add a couple of thousand miles for the engine to wear in properly on the brand new bike, I think it was around the 4-5k miles mark. I was already pushing the bike so hard that the tyres were loosing grip & sliding. I felt like I could push the bike harder, but the limiting factor was grip (or rather lack thereof).

Yes, you could argue that after 5000miles the wear on the tyres would be affecting grip, and brand new 220's might not do that, but I wanted something that would last longer. So I stuck on Z6's.

Yes, I've got to the point where I can slide on the Z6's (even on freshly scrubbed in tyres), but that's quite a bit further than sliding on the 220's.

IMO, tyres are a definite factor in how hard you can push the bike, and some tyres give before others. On the SV, the comparison is a lot closer, and I suspect that many wouldn't even notice. I remember Petevtwin650 commenting that he doesn't think he'd feel the front of his curvy starting to slide, and the man has covered many more miles than I have, yet I can feel it starting to go. I didn't notice it on the 220's, but I'm putting that down to me being a novice. I have been able to feel it on every Z6 I've had fitted to the bike.

On more powerful bikes, the difference in tyres, on the road (I haven't ridden anything but the SV on a track) is more noticable.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

A wise man once said that with the state of the art in modern tyre manufacture, ALL tyres that you can buy (from reputable manufacturers) are excellent.

The D220's are more than up to the job of keeping the SV on the road (unless you are me :P)

However when its time to change, there are better tyres available for the same money.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

[quote=Baph;1200523] I was already pushing the bike so hard that the tyres were loosing grip & sliding. I felt like I could push the bike harder, but the limiting factor was grip (or rather lack thereof).

/quote]


Or looked at from a different angle - You couldn't push harder as the tyres were the limiting factor. Tyres should always be the limiting factor - suspension, power etc should ALWAYS be more capable. The problem with tyres is that they rely on the road surface for grip and the road surface is notoriously inconsistent.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Interesting post.

Reminds me of a long term member of this forum telling me I'd never be able to ride my ninja as it was intended (i.e. at all quickly) on the road once I switched from sports to sports touring tyres.

Quite frankly on the road I hardly notice the difference between tyres.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Hey when have you seen me ride???


lol




I gte what you're saying but people prefer some tyres to others.i had a set of Z4s on my Sv and i hated them, didn't give me much feel and made the bike harder to turn and had the back end stepping out all over the place in the wet felt the same about the Avon azzaro ST's but agiun it's down to to peoples riding style, i'm rather aggressive with the throttle and can destroy a rear BT020 in about 4/5 k

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Hmmm. That's a meaningless paragraph. How can suspension and power be 'more capable'?

Suspension and tyres both work together to produce grip, so untill suspension can follow the roads surface pefectly without transmitting any bumps yet remaining firm it will always be a limiting factor as much as tyres are.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Ben, I notice you intentionally didn't mention the tyre, are we talking worse than 220's?
I think you can use & enjoy a bike with something like 220's & personally wouldn't pay to get them changed if they had life in them. But when changing them, why not get the best available (limited obviously to sports touring) just as Lozzo above getting PR2's

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Worse still you just hear people reciting jurno tripe on the latest flavour as dogma!! ;)

I run all sorts of rubbish on my bike and its all good, I’d like to think that I can determine available grip levels and just ride accordingly.

The only thing I didn't like was the 70 section front ... but that wasn't 'grip' just that I had to 'correct' the steering at slow speeds as the front kept wanting to 'fall in' ... which was most irritating ...

Oh and I’d safely agree with an above statement - any modern tyre as long as it is up to its working temperature will offer as much grip as needed for road riding … and I am even talking about the 170 section remould I have on the rear of mine at the mo! ;) .. oh and I have an 020 on the front … yep, I just don’t care ... put any old rubbish (as long as it is free or cheap ;)) on there and I'd ride it!! :D :D

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

I've just got big Cojones, you bunch of nancies.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Michelin Macadam 100s Ben? :) Often named as the worst road tyres still available, people forget that Ghostrider used one for the Uppsala run, if it's good enough for him...

Case against... I do reckon you can feel the difference between a good sport touring tyre and a relatively bad one... Last couple of times I've ridden on a bike with D220s on I've had slides that I wouldn't have expected on a Roadtec, they're fine with progressive leaning but fast direction changes like exiting roundabouts seem to upset them.

Even with very good tyres, 020 vs Roadtec, there's differences to be found- there's a roundabout on my commute with a nice set of dark lines from when I was riding on 020s, little slide on the exit most days. I quite liked it :) The Roadtecs just don't do it. Not that I'd ever fault the 020s at all, still very good tyres, but they seemed to go off a little over longer fast rides. Can't see any reason to fit them unless they're cheap though.

And I suppose sometimes a better tyre could save you when you screw up- panicky braking, stupidly dropping too much power in a corner (or braking when leaned), that sort of thing. Most tyres will deal with anything they should have to but perhaps a stickier tyre can deal better with rider incompetence? Never tested this theory as my own ncompetence would defeat a race slick :)

But as for "rubbish"... Yep, could not agree more. There's no bad tyres these days, just better tyres. Still, I wouldn't personally fit one of the "least good" tyres when the better ones cost the same and last so well, really. And I'd be tempted to swap other brands for Roadtecs, just because I'm very familiar with them and I like the shape of the tyre and how it feels. Slow to turn, but nice to correct.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

The "sportiest" tyres I have ever used on one of my bikes were the 4 year old D207s that came on the ZX6R. When they wore out I replaced them with Diablo Stradas which have returned excellent milage while letting me scrape the footpegs through the top hairpin at the Lydden track day last year.

I'm considering buying a 2nd set of wheels (Mine are chipped to all hell and need repainting anyway) and fitting something like the Avon Viper (standard) to them for use on the track and also just to try something very diferent. I'll be intrested to see if I notice any change at all really :D

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

I think that is the point being made here!!??!?! ;)

Bearing in mind the odd mixup of tyres I have on my bike and how they seem more than adequate even when I ‘get it on’ a bit, I really can’t see there is call for anything ‘more’ … sure I could get more grip, but who NEEDS it?? :smt110

I agree, if buying new, just get something that has longevity and grip in the table and be done with it … if the 2nd one down the list has a better deal on at the time, then go for those!!! … they will all be up to the job!

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

I do think that people get o hung up on tyres, i think that yes you can tell the dif between styles i.e touring, sport, track etc. But that is to be expected there is more rubber on a track tyre therefore more grip. But all the top manufacturers tyres i think are much of a muchness, if you come off your bike it is very unlikly to be the tyres fault, maybe a slippy surface or you were just riding like a nob. the only ones of us that can push a road tyre to its limits are rproper racers. Top racers have the right to comment on the differance a tyre makes, they are pros and genrally actually know what they are on about through experiance, unlike us lot who ride for pleasure and to get to work, we dont really spend enough time in the saddle to compare different tyres back to back day in day out. Racers push the tyre to its limit where a slight differance in the force of friction will win or lose a race, on the road it is not so inportant. Just like if we were to put full on race slicks on out bikes they wont work and you might as well be on ice.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

I read today that the police all use D220s, they can't be that bad

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Ok so there is product developemnt at work here, but the main driving force behind this and why people change exhausts,brakes,screens etc,etc,etc. is..........















Sales and marketing! FACT.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Police Academy - "Every so often, just now and again, you lose your accent" you're just plain old Philip Martin aren't you! :razz:

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Stu..I have you knowing my Englkish teacher taken over from me on last few posts. She wanted show me good sentence formation.:scratch:

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

have to agree...there's no bad tyres nowadays. I think profile,suspension and bike has more to do with it than just the tyre alone. Your riding style might account for feel as well.

e.g. on the sv I had stock d220s - too slidy IMO - felt horrible. got some stradas fitted and just loved them. I stuck the d220s on my old cbr (in place of the macadam 100s) and they were spot on - no slidy slippy stuff. When the d220s wore out I stuck stradas on thinking that they would be like the sv - wrong -slippy slidy - as for the wet - yuk. Jimmy54321 and his mate have some video of me sliding all over the ship on the last st.andrews rideout so they can vouch for me. Now have power 2ct's on and they are very flicky. Don't know if the sv would get on with the 2ct powers or not. So long as they're round black and stick like ****e to a blanket.:D

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

If the power 2ct's are as good as we're finding the Road 2's.................you'd love 'em:D

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Don't have my SV anymore so I wont find out soon. The power 2cts are superb. Not sure if the power 2cts come in an sv rear size though - maybe someone could put me right? Quite fancy a shot of these road 2cts. Do they warm up as quick as the stradas? The powers take a bit of coaxing.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

According to the Michelin site they do a 160 rear in the Power 2cts:D

What we like is none of this '100 miles to scrub them in' rubbish. 50 k they reckon, so around 35 miles..................much better.

The Road 2's certainly warm up quickly. Never had so much as a twitch on wet roads on Sunday not even first thing:D

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Yep, it's rubbish that... I did 100 miles the day after I fitted my last rear, to Glasgow and back along the M8. Just 2 heat cycles. How run in? Not very.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Baph, I believe you may be doing it wrong. 5,000 miles isn't that many to get really use to a bike. On an SV on the road, you can get the back sliding but it is not easy to do if you are riding anywhere near smoothly.

Now, there are two interpretations here:
1) you are feeling the tyre wall shifting/flexing slightly, and assuming its a full on slide.

2) Perhaps you are opening the throttle too quickly, i.e too much too quickly. If you are smoother, you will be able to get power down more quickly and more acceleration, as sliding will loose you acceleration time.

Seriously, there is more to being quick than being able to open the throttle. If you look at the lines you take, then you may gain a BIG advantage here. Now I don't mean taking race lines on the road, but with the help of a few advanced techniques, i.e off siding, knowing when to get on the throttle, vanishing points and lots of observation.

Anyway, slightly going off topic. I've always used sports touring tyres, even on my speed triple. I have managed to get my pegs on them, whist chasing an instructor through druids around brands hatch. That was plenty quick with enough grip and plenty of acceleration. Could I of opened the throttle and spun the back up, yes, but it wouldn't of given me any advantage.

Just my 2p's worth.
Dan

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

I still maintain that MEZ4's arn't very good tyres; they certainly didnt inspire any confidence for me....

Matt

Re: Tyres
 

I know we don't need the traction offered by the better tyres in MOST conditions/situations, but I want to know that if a situation suddenly develops I'll have the confidence in my tyres to brake hard or pull the bike lower in a turn that's caught me unawares, and make it through.
Jon

Re: Tyres
 

You not be needing the most top tyre to be do this. Trust me I riding Michelins and they not the best! (See Ducati + Bridgestone!):(

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Sudoxe, I'm fully aware that I could be smoother. As for vanishing point/observation, I am doing both to the fullest possible. Part of vanishing point is also road position. After last weekend, and seeing how Petevtwin650 positions his bike, I've taken on some of his riding style (mainly having the confidence to sit on the 'wrong' side of the road a lot more).

However, part of the fun for me during commute or pleasure rides is actually the sliding. I couldn't care less if I shave 5mins off my journey because I'm smooth, I'd rather enjoy the ride.

There have been times on the road where I've completely ballsed it up, and the only way I knew to get a handle on the situation was to make a tyre slide (yes, you could argue observation etc etc, but when you're in a situation sometimes there's nothing that observation can do for you, I'm talking getting out of situation, not avoiding it happening in the first place). There have also been times where I've simply hit first gear whilst heavily braking for a bend, and just a fraction too soon, so the rear has slid.

The point of my post was basically that it's a fair bit harder to get a Z6 to slide (under power or braking) for any given road condition than it is a D220. Therefore the choice of tyre certainly does affect riding, and it's definitely noticable. Granted I'm comparing one set of 220's to about 4 different sets of Z6s, but still.

Incidentally, other than first or maybe second gear, I don't think I've made my SV slide under power. Bikes with more power, certainly, but I'd be amazed to see an SV do it in 4th (for arguments sake).

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

black and round :salut:

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

I cant tell the difference between the Diablo Corsa III I have on my GSXR and the Metzler Z6 I have on my SV.

I tried a set of 2CT's on my GSXR and whilst they made me feel confident in the dry I didnt like how they felt in the wet. The diablos are much better IMHO.

I've done plenty of miles in all weather on the stock D220 and I didnt think they were that bad to be honest. Yes there are better tyres, in terms of feel and feedback, but I never had them slip, slide or spin up. Liz is the same I've never heard her complain about the stock D220's well not until she had chewed up the back one to the point of no return by locking the back wheel on downshifts on purpose :D :cool:

The only tyre I have had that I have had spin up was the f*cking orrible BT014's my GSXR had on it when I bought it. Urgh... they really knocked my confidence, just couldnt get on with them I could never get any feel for what the front of the bike was doing.

I think thats the thing, different riders ride on different levels of feedback, so what feels great to one rider feels orrible to another. I dont believe theres such a thing as a bad modern tyre. But I think there are ones that suit different riders and different riding styles better than others.

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Can be done in the wet :D

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Yes yes, especially when exiting the corner over a manhole cover... :p

Get back to the states you argumentative sod! :p (Says me :oops:)

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

Yes, as part of some fun it is good :D

Dan

Re: Tyres...argh, sticky this sticky that :( ;)
 

And it's because of the fun element of sliding that whenever it happens accidentally, my only thought really is "slide, k, no worries." Well, in all honesty no real thoughts enter my head about it, I'm too focused on the ride, just that the odd accidental twitch/slide is perfectly acceptable to me, and doesn't lead to all out panic :)