Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

As a new rider I still feel that I slow down too much for bends and corners but only after I've come out the other side of them do I think I could have gone round them considerably quicker! So my question is, does this just get better with confidence which is gained from more riding or is it a skill that I can learn? If other riders have experienced similar feelings, how long did it take or what did you do to improve your cornering?

Thanks

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Nah, just go out and buy the latest Supersports bike and you will be transformed into Valentino Rossi.
Well that seems to be what a lot of people think will happen! ;)

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

My personal view on this... don't change your riding style at all!

It's sooooooOOOOoooo much safer to go slow into a corner, then speed up, than it is to do things the other way around!!

When you KNOW the corner, then you can work on your line a little more, maximise vision around the corner by sitting wide, and get on the power sooner, cranking the bike over more.

In like a pussy cat, out like a tiger... get it right, and you'll be running just as fast as the more experienced folks in a matter of minutes, ask Alpinestarhero ;)

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

yes, is the short answer

i'm still green with bikes but my cornering has improved massively since i took a couple of simple steps:

1. adjust your suspension to suit your weight, there are a number of sites with guides and it really makes the bike feel planted, for me on a K6 SVS i left the rear preload alone and dropped the front forks one softer, i weigh 11st and the roads are pretty bumpy around here

2. grip with your knees, relax your arms, bend your elbows, if you lean do it slightly forwards and into the bend, look where you want to go and try to do the whole corner with the throttle open, if you let it close the suspension geometry changes and upsets the balance of the bike

that's about the extent of my experience on the subject, but the more you practice the more natural it becomes. the worst thing i was doing was gripping the bars tightly, if you hit a bump mid corner the bike has to turn the bars a little to compensate, if you grip them loosely, just enough to hold the throttle open, the bike will steer itself and feel much better

edit: agree with baph, tis better to go in too slow than too fast, but my advice was based on cornering speeds where little old ladies were catching me up mid corner:grin:

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

in a word, yes

take it slow to start with, concentrate on being smooth & the speed will come naturally (with time)

slow is smooth & smooth is fast :-)

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Experience of the corner in question or experience in general? Overal, experience in general will improve your corner speed, but in particular, experience of any given corner will improve speed on that corner.

Experience in general teaches you things like:
Counter steering - the biggy (imho)
Getting clues about where the road is going (following the arc of streetlights, hedgerows etc)
Learning to use the vanishing point (is this corner tightening or opening?)

I tend to ride pretty slow into corners I don't know, yep it feels a bit "darn it, could have done that quicker" but I guess it allows you more reaction room for the unexpected pheasant/man hole cover on the racing line and the like.

If you want to get technical then the the Keith Code "Twist of the Wrist" books are very good on cornering, I'm fairly sure these books have formed the basis for a lot of advanced training.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

as Baph says, but I will just add. IF you do go into the corner too quick, you could end up tarmac decoration, but before you panic, try not to front brake, and just bank the bitch over ..... she can take it, and hopefully this will give you a chance to get round. Then, DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!!!

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

ah yes, the famous buttock clench cornering technique...

only done it once or twice, can't recommend it, the urge to brake is massive and it requires a lot of willpower not to do so:smt103

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Get this, I was talking to a BMW rider just before the MIGTs rideout who said he goes touring on his beemer. Fair enough. He was supprised that I live in North Wales & have a small plate & a loud can (I think I mentionned him on the MIGTs ride).

It was when he advised using the front brake mid bend "because it'll dig in, that's what the tyre is there for" that I walked away laughing at him. Front brake mid bend will do one of two things:
1) Stand the bike up. You'd better be on a VERY wide road, or a race track with plenty of run off for this to happen.
2) Lowside the bike.

If you NEED to scrub speed mid bend, LIGHTLY use the rear, as that encourages the bike to turn in more. Too much though & the back end will step out.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Good god :( The trouble is he probably spouts that **** gravy at everyone he meets, and unfortunately some poor sods probably take it on board. Depending on how long he's been doing it, he's probably directly accountable for the deaths of several. People die because of tossers like that :(

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

In short yes it does.

4 things to concentrate on

1. Your speed should be correct for the corner and you should be in the right gear to drive the bike out of the corner on the throttle before you get into the corner as well.

2. Turn your head and look through the corner to the exit of the corner.

3. Dont go through the corner with the throttle shut or the clutch in.

4. Think about your road position, chose a position that gives you the best view through the corner.

Basically you want to get your road position, corner speed and gear correct before you start to turn, you want the suspension of the bike working to help you turn and soak up the bumps rather than loading it up with big handfuls of brake and or throttle.

That old adage slow in fast out is what you want to be working towards. Remember relax, take your time, and work on those lines and your technique, and one day you'll be as quick as Amarko5

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

I second Bath's points. Generally you will get faster with more miles behind your belt. No substitute for that (IMHO). Don't forget what may seem slow/quick to you may seems too quick/too slow to others.

I personally do not break in the corner. it's asking for troubles. Front break (as Bath said) will either make you go wide or lowside the bike (non of those is something you want to do on the roads with traffic!). Back well ... I think that the risk of highside is to big for me to take but it can sure work for others. Try to have a slightly possitive throttle all the way through the corner.

I tend to go faster around corners I know, as I would immagine most people do anyway. But not always. I love the roads around Buxton but I tend to go slower into blind bends even so I know them quite well. There are so many sheep on the roads there and I had some nasty "brown trousers, underwear and seat moments before).

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Bath? You been using the spell checker?? :lol:

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Certainly that's the likely result of a novice on an SV, and I'd agree that it's wise to warn them as such as you say.

But it's not always the case though.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

All very true Fizz, but for a left hander this position is over to the right, but this puts you directly in the line of the oncomming corner cutter, you need not only to be able to see round the bend, but you must give yourself time to react to what you see.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Sorry mate. Just too busy multitasking and I am real sh1te at it!

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Leave your suspension well alone!!!! Your suspension will settle by doing what Fizzwheel is saying.

Get confident with the bike first and get plenty of miles under your belt before even thinking about touching it. Unless you know what to expect with sussy adjustment it's just something to confuse you. Chances are you'll never notice the difference.

Fizzwheel, baph etc are all right. Slow in fast out.

Here's an extra tip for you. Once you've set your speed and riding thru - mentally say "relax, relax, relax"

EDIT: Tip - use the limit point and make sure you can stop in the distance you can see.

Bang on. Be prepared to give up position for cars cutting the corner.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

First thing I had drummed into me by my dad when I started driving and then I had it drummed into me again when I started riding.

Agreed, also watch for other bikers doing the same thing. Especially on popular "bike" roads.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Advanced stuff Baph for someone with limited miles. Banking more (countersteering) does the same thing. The circumf of the tyre is decreased and slows you down and turns the bike quicker.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

+1


Ben

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Good advice, please keep it coming.

I sometimes think I should be looking to lean the bike more but I feel comfortable as I am and it may make me nervous/jumpy to take it further. Don't get me wrong I'm not slowing to pushbike speeds or anything like that:o .


I'm used to driving performance cars so try never to brake in the corner having been used to gettinfg ti set before the corner and power thru.

What is counter steering, tried to read up on it but I still don't think I've got it?

Do track days help or should they be left until you've honed your road skills?

Thanks

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

having altered my own suspension to suit me i can say that if you're suspension is set up incorrectly it can't absorb the bumps in the road surface properly, the bike will feel wrong, skittish or wallowy, all sapping confidence and taking concentration away from actually navigating the turn in the first place

perhaps i should have added a caveat of "if you are aware it will change the handling" - although it's blindingly obvious that to drastically change your suspension and then go into corners in full attack mode before finding out whether the settings affect the handling the wrong way is a stupid thing to do - provided you don't act like a total moron you'll never lose control simply because you made minor adjustments

clearly suspension tweaks can't cure poor technique, but why you would try to improve your technique on a bike that isn't happy in the corners in the first place is beyond me:confused:

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

On a bike, you counter steer naturally at anything above 20mph. This is passive though, and people (me included) like active countersteering.

This is basically that if you push the left bar forwards, the wheel will turn to the right, and the bike will fall to the left naturally. Some people pull on the bars, some push, personally, I push.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

To make the most of what you've got. To ride it better.

IMHO yes springs and oil do make a difference but I'm not convinced that its a big a difference as sometimes its made out to be. I think alot of the perceived difference is because you've put new oil into an old bike that kid of thing. Also it can also be in the riders head, rather than the bike being radically better to ride.

I've ridden standard and re-sprung SV's and to be honest I can't hardly tell the difference, yes there is a difference but you dont feel it till your pushing the bike hard into corners. I never really began to feel that I was pushing the bike hard to its limit and maybe beyond mine till I'd clocked up nearly 20K's worth of milleage on my SV.

As a novice rider you might not feel the difference. I'm still of the opinion that when you start riding, learning the correct technique for cornering and braking, is going to reap bigger rewards than throwing money at your bike upgrading x, y, z is.


IMHO

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

I notice you said earlier that you made the front preload 1 ring softer and the bike is now planted. So your bike is basically stock?

You're 11 stone so there's no way a 1 ring front preload adjustment would transform an SV like you are saying above. Your SV will still bounce like it always has because there are no damping circuits on your bike.That's a placebo effect you're experiencing.

Damping slows or increases - pointy SVs don't have rebound or compression so you can't dial this out.

What Fizzwheel is saying about the suspension is "settling" it for the corner.

If you go into a corner, brake, shut off the throttle then start your turn then your front end has all the weight making the rear lighter. If you give a bit of throttle (1-2 mm is all it takes) just before your turn then you squat the rear and take the weight off the front. This balances your suspension for the bend and is more stable through the corner.

IMO if you have limited miles and you are fannying around with suspension (even on an SV) then you're wasting your time. Learn about the way the bike dives under braking and squats under acceleration. Once you have this sussed then start to adjust your suspension to fine tune your cornering.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

I was just like you, and I still am to an extent. I don't think being overcautious is anything to be ashamed of. Just pick the where and the when to try going faster very carefully. Never attack a new (to you) road at your own limit, and be very very careful around blind corners.
Once you've had time on the bike it will feel much more under your control, so don't hurry it.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Wrong. SV's (pointy's specifically) only have preload. Other than that, carry on.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

You got in too quick there Baph. Noticed my typo and was about to edit! lol

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Absolute rubbish.

Not only do you not have any clue what terms you're using actually mean, to say that adjusting suspension for novies is a waste of time is complete and utter ********, even on the SV.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Oh really?

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Really. Damping has nothing to do with spring rate, nor does preload.

As for suspension, try unwinding the rear preload and trying taking a pillion.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

If you looked up you'll notice I noticed I made a ****in typo and went back to correct it as soon as I realised.:smt098

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

fizz, i was only suggesting that people play with the settings they've got on the stock bike, a full fork upgrade is overkill like you say but surely using the little bit of adjustment suzuki give the SV is better than nothing? i agree that you'll not get better by upgrading your bike, or buying a "better" one, but if it's free then take advantage... you'd adjust the seat and mirrors when you get in a new car so why not set up your bike to suit your weight?

stuart, seeing as we're unlikely to change one another's opinions, there's little point in me engaging with you, your opinion is your own, feel free to have it, but i don't think you're right saying adjusting your suspension is a waste of time, even for novice riders...

i sussed how the bike dives and squats within a few days of picking up the SV, i know exactly what fizzwheel is saying about settling the bike before cornering, and that wasn't what i was reffering to in my previous posts. Even if your bike is level and smooth if you hit a bump mid-corner having just the preload misadjusted will make the bike feel wrong, simple as, if adjusting your suspension was pointless no manufacturer would be adding weight and expense by putting it on their bikes

anyways, no doubt you'll have a lot more to say:smt062

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Umh... OK I see what you're saying and I agree with you, but ( theres always one isnt there )

Even on the GSXR with all kinds of adjustment and much better front all over all, If I hit a bump mid corner its still going to unsettle the bike and frequently it does. I think my bike to me feels pretty well setup I've certainly got not complaints, it feels planted and gives good feedback, but a bump is a bump and it still gets upset from time to time.

What I mean is that if you learn to corner better, faster, smoother you'll have a lot more in reserve in order to get you out of those kind of situation, rather than perhaps relying on the bike to get you out of it. Suspension setup IMHO is always compromised to some degree, you're never going to get a bike with a "perfect setup" its not achievable.

Settling the bike with the throttle and driving through the corner is what I always try to achieve. I'm relying on me to set the bike up for the corner rather than relying on the bike getting me round or trusting that the suspension is perfect, if you get what I mean.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Stuartyboy, Hey, Don't take it personally. You will find that Flamin Squirrel is one
of the ,shall we say, more opinionated members of the Forum. I have had a few 'run ins' with him and its best to leave it at someones own opinion, and move on. :smt056
After all, its only a Forum.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

SVRob

You can't go far wrong by joining the IAM

http://www.iam.org.uk/eshop/membershipshop/sfl.htm

They aren't the slipper and pipe brigade that many believe, you'll get v. good advice. Now's the time to do it before you pick up bad habits.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Can you tell us where the benefits are then?

They don't let you adjust the suspension when you're learning after all.

Not all novices are the same so throwing suspension settings into the mix before they've had a chance to get to know the bike is a waste of time "in my opinion".

For example - what if the novice set his front preload wrongly and it bottomed out going into a bend at too fast a speed?

Fizzwheel has said it already. Stick with what you have and get to know it first.

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

Experience is the key to faster cornering. Surely the standard set up on a bike, is the standard because it is standard for the standard rider, as a novice, then standard is good! So why start changing it until you become non-standard!!


Well it amused me, and made perfect sense :D

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

The training school that did my DAS must be pretty damned unique then!! :lol:

But then, I had the same bike for about a week (either 4 or 5 days) and no-one was using that bike whilst I wasn't on it. So first day was setting the bike up for my weight etc.

EDIT: Tomcat, I wouldn't say the standard setup is for a standard rider, I'd say it's for the average japanese rider (short ar*es).

Re: Does faster cornering come with experience?
 

I stand corrected:rolleyes: They didn't at mine.

Feckit - I'm away out for a ride!

You lot can chat amongst yourselves