Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

So, 10 days ago I passed a hidden police car when I may have been slightly above the speed limit. Not heard anything about that yet.

Today: a couple of cars doing about 55 on a straight road, trees either side, so I passed them briefly hitting * and...there was the camera van in amongst the trees. It had windows front and back so I'm not going to escape this one.

It's maddening that I had ridden for 60 miles keeping strictly to the limits and then I go blow it on one quick overtake maneuver.

I need to pay more attention :(

(as well as the fine).

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

What was the limit on the road?


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Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

You could be lucky yet.
Speedos are not always 100% accurate, they are allowed to over-read by up to 10%
If your speedo is say 4% out (not uncommon) and you briefly hit 70 indicated that would be 67.2 actual
There's usually a "tolerance" of 10% over the limit plus 2mph, i.e. 68

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

SV pointy speedos over-read by 8 to 9% on the standard wheel and tyre size so if you were indicating 70, that's less than 65mph actual speed. It's still possible that you might get done as the 10% plus 2mph tolerance is a guideline rather than a rule but I think it's unlikely that you would get penalised.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

That and if it was momentarily for the overtake might be ok

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Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

My SV Speedo over reads by 10% if GPS is anything to go by. The car is spot on though.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

The camera may have been obstructed by the cars you were passing, were you level with van when you left the cars behind ? Also could the cars have screened your number plate as you passed the van ? If you can check your speedo against a satnav it may give you some reassurance (or not) about what speed you were actually travelling at.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Licence clean currently? I hate the sweating it out but 3 points (possibly awareness course) isn't the end of the world...

It's weird though, how invisible a vehicle covered in HI-VIZ decals is... Chameleon vans..

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Not just yourself, the colours don't contrast with leafy green things well so a clever hidey spot for the van

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

It might depend on which way the van was facing. Not all of them have cameras in both windows but they can do either. The most common layout is the speed radar in the rear window and the number plate snapper in the front I think.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

My Curvy speedo reads over as well.We have LED speed warning signs on the main road near my house and at 30 on my speedo it shows around 27/28 Mph.Same with other ones in the city/roads.

Hope you get lucky :)

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Speed limit + 10% + 2MPH

As long as you're within that, you'll be offered a course (assuming you've not been on the same one within 3 years) - they won't say "better let him off, might be inaccurate"

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

I'm afraid that isn't a rule, it's a guideline. I did a SAC about 18 months ago. At the start they read out how much we were each over the limit. I was in a class with people who got done doing 33 in a 30 and 77 on the M25.

Essex police are strict and said that the 10% + 2 is a myth. They can enforce the speed limit. And they don't have to offer you a course, even if your licence has previously been clean for years.

My misdemeanor was doing 37 through the Blackwell tunnel in the car. It's 40 either side, drops to 30 in the tunnel and I was going at the same speed as everyone else so I suspect a lot of people get caught out. I now don't assume I can add a few miles on to allow for my speedo plus extra percentages.Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

I got a new car last week. I'm still impressed by the button that limits the car to the speed limit.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

This is a good article on the subject.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/adv...peeding-fines/

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Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Red Ones, I like that button too!


My SV reads 9% over compared to my satnav.


Seeker - On a plus side, at least you weren't hitting triple figures.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

The authorities would do well to consider where they want to go with the future of traffic enforcement. When otherwise responsible and law abiding citizens start to feel unfairly victimised there is a tendency for them to take disproportionate steps to counter it and that can have unintended consequences. At the moment pretty much all their enforcement options, and your vulnerability, are based on you being honest enough to correctly register your vehicle, and to display the correct number plate. You only have to sit in the lines of commuter traffic going into London each morning to count the number of bikes going past that have dirty unreadable number plates (even at this time of year), plates angled so they can't be read, plates "accidentally" covered by their lock wrapped around the rack, or a number of other measures to stop their plate being read. Remember, these are individuals who are getting up every morning and going into work, people who would generally fall into that slightly more respectable branches of society......

Then you only have to go to your average Wednesday evening biker meet. Sure, there have always been the local idiot but the number of groups I now see riding around with plates hidden up under the mudguard, or no plates at all has multiple over recent years. It suddenly becomes a "them and us" situation with bikers uniting to rebel against a cause..... just look at that other thread over the use of a Stinger!

I'm all for road safety, I spend a huge amount of my time promoting it, but you won't find me preaching you achieve it by forcing motorists to comply with speed limits. I'd rather spend my time encouraging them to appreciate the potential hazards and to select an appropriate speed to deal with them. Unfortunately my approach isn't a particularly good business model......

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Well the speed awareness course I did, with an ex copper of 50 years who now spends his life teaching these courses, said it wasn't a myth.

So I guess we'll never know.

And tbh...I don't care. I accidentally broke the speed limit as I genuinely had no idea it was a 20 zone, and I sure won't do it again - so the course has worked and was a positive eye opener. I think it should be part of the driving/riding test to be put through one of these courses - there's insight there that is way beyond what gets taught in either a theory or lessons leading up to a practical.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

I can see automated speed limitation of cars and bikes becoming the norm in the very near future. In all honesty, I'm blown away it's not happened already. Regardless of what people think, coppers aren't revenue agents, they genuinely want people to be safe - and not have to report the death of a loved one due to speeding/careless/drunk driving, etc.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Well CC Anthony Bangham caused a mighty backlash when he advocated fining drivers who went 1mph over the posted speed limit, other Police obviously told him it was unenforceable because the accuracy of equipment would be questioned every time and probably too many cases would end up in court which would block up the system. There is an 'allowance' for a reason, vehicle speedometers are not calibrated, and sometimes the Cameras and laser units aren't either, so if you go to court you can ask for a current calibration certificate for the unit used.

As speed bumps, chicanes and other 'traffic calming' street furniture are removed from our streets they are being replaced with 20 mph limits, so we have to be wary in any town or village now for new 20 limits. I impose a 20 limit on myself in our 30 mph housing estate because of kids (road runs past a kids playground) and animals - and narrow roads (not even wide enough to get a centre white line) with cars parked all over the place, and some people still sit on your rear bumper, and you see a lot of parents going over 30 LOL.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...rapped-cars-UK

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...er-driver-doi/

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

So ask yourself this, genuinely. How many of us would bother riding bikes recreationally if either every time you went over a speed limit you automatically got fined, or all bikes were physically restricted from being able to break speed limits? Nobody goes out and buys a Fireblade or an R1 because they intend sticking to the upper speed limits. My personal moral compass means I'm pretty good at observing limits in built up areas, not because I necessarily think it's dangerous to exceed them in certain places but because I take a certain amount of pride in my riding and discipline is part of the process, but if I were being truthful, and I am, the national speed limit doesn't feature very much in my riding plans.

You're spot on saying coppers aren't revenue agents, but it's not them imposing the vast majority of speeding fines. Most coppers (there are always exceptions) apply a certain amount of common sense and look at time and place, and although over my career I certainly issued my fair share of tickets they were seldom for speeding. It might have said "excess speed" in the box, but that's only because it wasn't big enough for me to fit in "Riding like a ********...."

Speed enforcement is dealing with the symptom, not the cause and it makes pretty much no difference whatsoever to road safety, not in the big picture.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Unfortunately, most speed partnerships aren't run by coppers these days. They're run by bureaucrats.


The margin of 10%+2mph comes from the ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) guidelines on speed enforcement. These recommend that a NIP be issued when this margin is exceeded. Some years back this went through the courts. IIRC the judge said that to promote consistent policing the ACPO guidelines should be followed barring exceptional circumstances. Unfortunately, I can't find the case details.


Edit: Found the 2015 guidelines online:

http://library.college.police.uk/doc...t-Guidance.pdf

Note particularly paragraph 9.7, "These guidelines do not and cannot replace police officer's discretion".

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

When Speed Awareness courses were first introduced they were intended to divert prosecutions, however they also had to pay for themselves so the ACPO guidelines were generally ignored because they argued they weren't issuing an NIP...... For a while you got away with telling them to poke it if you were offered a course when caught below the guidelines, but that didn't last long because business managers run them, not ACPO officers.... Just remember who pulls the strings, chief constables are now appointed (and sacked) by a locally elected commissioner who basically makes him (or her) jump through whatever hoop happens to further their political career, and 5h1t only flows one way!

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

I also was done for 33.5 in a 30 limit at the bottom of a steep hill in Norwich. Extremely difficult to keep within 30 down the hill in the car. Easier on the bike; love the sv engine braking.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

33.5 is kind of taking the pish... I got caught at 53, and took it on the chin. I was kind of being a bit of a nobber.

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Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

I thought so too. And the speed awareness course was three hours I'll never get back. There was nothing in the course that I wasn't already aware of as I had only taken the bike test 2 years before and had done extensive revision beforehand on top of the 45 years driving a car.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

As ACPO no longer exists as a body, their guidelines are pretty much redundant. There is a hard line on speeding here now, harder even than when Brunstrum was in charge! Stupid low limits are springing up and these are rigorously enforced by the speed vans. I think a couple of mph over the posted limit will become the new benchmark for knicking motorists.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

knicking?

As in pulling your pants down ?

:smt048

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Obviously a Freudian slip which reflects my views of some speed limits and some enforcement practices. :cool:

I had a dig as I know the Police and "Safety" Partnership are hot right now, with Operation Darwen (yes it is spelt that way by the Police) in full swing. I found this response to an FoI request in February 2018 on their website. It states they still follow the 10%+2mph guidelines from ACPO. Worth knowing if you are over this way and the speed wanders up.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

If you ever want to ask a camera partnership a real low baller ask them in what percentage of offences detected where the speed recorded was in excess of 30mph over the posted limit was an offender identified and successfully held accountable. You would be quite shocked as to how low the figure is, which goes a long way to demonstrate how ineffective automatic detection is against the more serious offenders.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Little bit longer I'm afraid mate, they only need to send it within 14.

Fingers crossed though!

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Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Hopefully you'll be fine, I always get nerves when I see a camera van when I'm out on the bike.

Two Sundays ago I was doing an indicated 79 (a true 72 - 73mph) on a dual carriageway and there was a police camera van concealed in a lay-by. I was a bit paranoid for the rest of the journey so when I got home I had to check what the limit was on that stretch of road using Streetview (it was NSL = 70mph)

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Or maybe, "Thiss will messs with hissss mind my Precious ..."

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Don't want to **** on your cornflakes but I'd say give it a few more days. How longs 2nd class take?

Should be alright after that, unless you're REALLY unlucky that it got lost in the post

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Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Royal Mail say that the majority of 2nd class letters usually arrive after 3 days from posting. That's what I tell our customers when they ask,

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Probably safe, but not definitely I'm afraid. I think they technically have months to serve the notice, but usually do it within weeks. The long time is due to problems contacting owner, or finding out driver etc.

If you are the registered keeper, and address etc. is correct, then I suspect you are safe.

Bloody ridiculous isn't it. The terrible driving I see every day is never challenged by the Police, but stray a few safe MPH over the limit and you can be totally stuffed.

Not a dig at the copper on the street, but their bosses and the other powers-that-be are completely on the wrong track IMHO. Knicking people for minor speeding will do very little to improve road safety......

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

The NIP has to be issued within 14 days of the offence. This includes paperwork to confirm the driver which needs to be returned within a set period.

They then have up to 6 months to issue proceedings in whichever form that may take, course, fine or court summons.

I sweated it out for 5 months after returning my NIP then got a summons [emoji17]

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Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

The only difference is in the physics of velocity and energy involved:


Kinetic energy = 0.5 x mass x velocity(squared)



So a vehicle travelling at 20mph has less than half the energy of the same at 30mph, and it increases exponentially. Every extra mph adds a disproportionate amount of kinetic energy (and shiz factor if it all goes wrong).
Though I suppose your point was that a vehicle driven at high speed is generally being done so by someone who is also driving it like an eejit! ;)

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

I worry a lot about people who drive too slowly, they just toddle along at 35 or 40 in a 60 limit and seem totally unaware of what is going on outside their cage and the long line of frustrated people behind. Sometimes when you try to pass they speed up, and if you stay behind they will often go through a 30 limit at 40.

I tend to stay within speed limit and on our housing estate will do 20 in the 30 limit because kids and pets around, but I don't take the p155 at 35 in 50 / 60 limits.

Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)
 

Ah yes! The 40 milers! Those folk, often of a generation, that do 40mph wherever and whenever, regardless of the chaos they cause! Built up area 40mph, open road 40mph, motorway same... Should not be on the road, full stop. No effing idea of driving, a danger to everyone around them.