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2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
Hello Everyone, new here to the forum.
I'm hoping some helpful mechanics might be able to help me diagnose an engine issue. This paragraph is the lead up to my issue, skip to the next paragraph if you don't care. So a few weeks ago, I started up my bike to go riding like any other time. I was out just cruising around downtown for about an hour. I decide to head back home, and hopped back on the interstate. As I was almost back my engine noise changed, to where it sounded more fart-y. This would only happen if I kept the speed constant, if I started slowing down or speeding up, it would go back to normal. Then just a bit after that, I heard some clanking, I was going ~75mph, so it was hard to tell from where, I checked my chain, and it was still there doing it's thing. I was already heading home, so I was just going to go straight there. As I'm getting off the interstate, and this is the real lucky part, I hit the next 5 green lights back to my place. I get into the shared left turn lane, and the moment I put it into neutral, engine dies. I tried to crank it back up, but couldn't. It was still turning over, just wouldn't start. I push it across the 2 lanes to where I was turning, and tried to start it again, but alas. So I end up pushing it the last .5 mile back to my place. The battery was clearly dead, and it was almost 8pm at this point, so I decided to deal with it later. At this point I think I have an battery or stator or rectifier issue. I get the battery charged and tested at autozone, and they said the battery should still be good. So I take it back to start the bike back up. I am welcomed by a horendous impact wrench noise coming from the engine. Note the engine is on it's sidestand at this point. So I immediately turn it off, and investigate later (it was late at that point too). I get it up on it's stands so it's vertical, and get audio of it clanking. Now it sounds much better (still bad), but better. Now it's only intermittent clicks and clanks. I was the one who stopped the bike with the kill switch at the end of that video. Based on the story above, I talked to a local mechanic, and purely based on my description, thought I might have a stator failure, where a coil broke off. I decided to take the crank case off to investigate (sorry for it being vertical). Nothing looks out of the ordinary. I decided to take off the clutch side as well, nothing looks wrong either. I put both sides back together, and tried starting up one more time. Sounded a little worse than the running video, but basically the same. Now here's some extra info. <del>This last time, I decided to try to shift it into gear. The moment I dropped it into first (with the clutch still held in), the bike immediately died</del> I'm stupid and forgot the kickstand was down (cause I had it on front and rear stands. It drops into first now. Tried again, and same result. Additionally, I discovered a small ball bearing in my oil pan. Unless the bearing came from the clutch release mechanism (from the outside where the clutch cable runs to, but I don't think that's it), it probably came from inside the engine. I don't have a picture currently, but I can get it if you think the size might be pertinent. I've already come to terms that I'm probably going to have to drop the engine and possibly split it to fix the issue, but if anyone has any thoughts or other diagnose steps, I'm all ears. I'm already looking at some other bikes as a replacement, but if I can fix my SV, then I can have 2 bikes :D |
Re: 2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
Engine oil level correct? How often do you check it?
Did you find the ball bearing in the engine oil or somewhere else? The clutch worm drive or steering head come to mind. |
Re: 2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
Was the sidestand down when you selected first gear ? IIRC if stand is down bike will start with clutch pulled in but when a gear is selected it will stop engine.
Ball bearing may be from sprag (one way) clutch mounted between electric starter motor and starter gear. The sprag has ball bearings and ramps and will allow drive from starter motor to engine, but when starter released and engine rotates it will not back drive the starter motor. |
Re: 2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
ball bearings in the engine can only come from two places and thats the main crank end and gearbox output bearings.
if you split the clutch mech then yes a bearing could have come out of there as well. there are 11 bearings in the mech cage. to me the engine sounds like the cam chain tensioner has gone or worse its big end knock which on an sv is fatal. i've heard similar in the past but not quite the same and it was the carbs needing balanced. they were that far out they were causing knocking which caused the cam chain to slap. |
Re: 2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
Its never easy to diagnose an engine fault from a video clip over the internet, but I've heard SV engines like that before and its not been a good outcome. However to be sure you will have to strip the engine down. But lets not get ahead of ourselves, have you checked that the exhaust headers are secure with no leaks? How about the spark plugs? It could be a simple fix, or it might not.
With regards to the ball bearing if it was from outside the engine it could be totally unrelated. If it came from the clutch worm that should be easy to find as its a simple mechanism to disassemble and check. If it is from within the engine it will basically just be from the gearbox as the main crank uses plain bearings and the sprag clutch "bearings" are not round. If one of the transmission bearings had failed I would expect to find play in the input or output shafts (wiggle the clutch and the front sprocket). Though if you had an issue there I wouldn't expect it to cause an engine noise like that, but you never know. |
Re: 2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
Biker Biggles:
The engine oil was full when I first started having issues. It's empty now with those videos as I drained it to take off either cover. SV650Rules: #-o I'm an idiot and forgot that part. I just tried it with it up and it now properly drops into gear. I think I remember seeing another ball bearing on the floor not in the oil pan, and I did accidentally split the clutch worm gear, I'll take it back off and check if it's missing any ball bearings. Here's the one I found though. Thanks Bibio for pointing out how many should be there. squirrel_hunter: I'll double check those, but both should be good. Would a slightly loose sparkplug cause that kind of racket? Assuming the ball bearing did in-fact come from the clutch worm gear, and noting that it does drop into 1st, other thoughts? Is there any downside to tightening the cam chain a little bit without taking the cylinder head cover off to "properly" check play (can't tell with my service manual (Clymer) if the tensioner is automatic, or if there is an adjustment bolt)? From what I remember, both cam chains are pretty tight, but not sure if it's within spec range. I just found this video, and it sounds quite similar to how mine sounds (new clip), just mine is more intermittent. I have some time after work tomorrow, so I can do my checking on my list of things. Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate it. |
Re: 2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
Quote:
From your picture of the ball its size does look like the clutch worm is a strong candidate. Take the worm off of the bike, wind it all the way out and see if you have the same number of balls as there are channels and compare with what you have. Clean, grease, then reassemble. The Cam Chain tensioner is automatic, its a little spring that pushes a pin out onto the chain guide. Assuming they are standard and have not been replaced by manual adjusters that is as I've not seen them. So working on the likelihood they are originals and they are a part that can fail lets test them... You will have to check your manual as I can't be sure of the correct positions for the crank but from memory you want to be in the valve checking position in order to take the tension off of them and then either extract them from the engine or simply wind them out. I would go for the wind out check first in that its a small gasket that can be easily replaced if required. Remove the tensioner cap and with a small flat blade screw driver rotate the tensioner anti-clockwise. You should feel resistance, remove the screwdriver and the tensioner will spring back out. If this happens then I'd suggest they are fine. If not remove the offending tensioner for further inspection. Your manual will hopefully explain that better then me though. If that is all good I'd be checking the big end bearing. That video of the screwdriver down the spark plug hole shows what needs to be done. Just remember not to jam anything in there and you dont need massive amounts of force to move the piston should it be the big end. If you have movement in the rod, the next step I would be considering is to take the barrel off to confirm. However I wouldnt suggest jumping to that step in case it is something else that is a simple fix. Lets hope. Quote:
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Re: 2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
Well, so good news and bad news.
Good news is the 2 small bearings were from the worm gear. Either I lost 2 more, or the previous owner lost those 2 (4 open holes and I had 2 ball bearings), but it looks like it'll work just fine missing 2 spaced out. Both spark plugs were good, the rear one got about an 1/8th of a turn to tighten it, the front one was fine. Both the exhaust headers were also good. Front cam chain is solid, probably had 1-3mm of play (guessing from feel). Here's a look down the chain if it's important. The rear was looser, at probably 6-8mm of play in the center. It was hard to get an exact reading, my caliper was actually hitting the tank, so I had to have it at an angle. Also just for prosperity and if some other noob like myself comes across this post, the tank holder bar I had didn't lift the tank up enough, some paracord works well going across the tank to the opposing cargo attachment points. Additionally, be sure to hold onto your bits, cause Suzuki apparently designed hidey holes in the frame for dropped things. There's a cutout just like this one in the frame directly under it, and took me about 10 minutes to find where my 5mm allen bit went. So guys, unless that rear cam chain is the culprit for my noise (which I just can't beleive 7mm of travel would cause it), my guess is a main bearing from the connecting rod to the crank shaft went. I'll confirm it with the method this person uses, but I suspect that's the case. If anyone has other ideas, please feel free, but it looks like I might have an off season project engine to work on. |
Re: 2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
Well, so good news and bad news.
Good news is the 2 small bearings were from the worm gear. Either I lost 2 more, or the previous owner lost those 2 (4 open holes and I had 2 ball bearings), but it looks like it'll work just fine missing 2 spaced out. Both spark plugs were good, the rear one got about an 1/8th of a turn to tighten it, the front one was fine. Both the exhaust headers were also good. Front cam chain is solid, probably had 1-3mm of play (guessing from feel). Here's a look down the chain if it's important. The rear was looser, at probably 6-8mm of play in the center. It was hard to get an exact reading, my caliper was actually hitting the tank, so I had to have it at an angle. Also just for prosperity and if some other noob like myself comes across this post, the tank holder bar I had didn't lift the tank up enough, some paracord works well going across the tank to the opposing cargo attachment points. Additionally, be sure to hold onto your bits, cause Suzuki apparently designed hidey holes in the frame for dropped things. There's a cutout just like this one in the frame directly under it, and took me about 10 minutes to find where my 5mm allen bit went. So guys, unless that rear cam chain is the culprit for my noise (which I just can't beleive 7mm of travel would cause it), my guess is a main bearing from the connecting rod to the crank shaft went. I'll confirm it with the method this person uses, but I suspect that's the case. If anyone has other ideas, please feel free, but it looks like I might have an off season project engine to work on. |
Re: 2001 SV650 Engine Diagnostic Help
a loose cam chain noise is a metallic rattle and slap. a fubar big end is a metallic crack and knock hence the name "big end knock".
by and large the SV engine is pretty bullet proof and there are three things that kill them. number 1 is low oil, second up is wheeling them (this starves the oil pump of oil), third is overly long oil service intervals. |
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