Clutch advice
 

Hello Darlings, I am after some advice in regards the clutch on my bike. There are no problems with it, it is silky smooth and works perfectly.

Me on the other hand, not so great! Arthritis is ruining my fingers, particularly on my left hand making using the clutch very painful, even on the soft clutch of the SV. My partners ZRX is now unridable for me because I cannot pull the clutch lever in.

I still run a full length lever, albeit one from our old friend at The Two Wheels and it is adjusted as well as it can be, but pain is making using it difficult to use. So I am now looking for an alternative.

The two options I am looking at are as follows. Hydraulic clutch conversion or the removal of clutch lever altogether. :shock:

The Hydraulic Clutch Conversion. This has been suggested to me as a possible way to make the lever movement easier on my left hand, but I have no idea what make is good or even if it will work. Can any of you suggest a good system that will work on my K3? I am not afraid of complicated jobs, I am mechanically capable and my other half is a former motorbike mechanic so can do the jobs I struggle with. I don't want cheap Chinese rubbish that will fail after a month of not riding, so it will have to be fairly resilient. It will also need to be able to run maybe a two or preferably three finger lever that is adjustable for an old bag with the twisted, crooked fingers of an eighty year old!

The other option I am thinking of is a little more complicated. Removing the gear linkage and replacing it with an air/electronic shifter and then making the gear lever into a clutch. I would still have the clutch for slow speed control and the like, but will be able to shift up and down using my thumb on a couple of buttons. Have any of you heard of or can recommend a system that works like this?

Cost will have to be a factor into what ever system I can make work for me, although my wonderful (yes, really) Mother in Law has offered to pay for it if we can find the right bits. :kiss::smt058

Medically, the GP is out of ideas and I have been through the pain clinic, but they just want to help me with counselling to help me come to terms with giving up bikes in favour of knitting and then surviving prison, as a result of the murder of medical professionals by knitting needles shoved up the their back passage! :shock:

I know that some of you gorgeous people have been down this path yourselves, so you are likely to have some great input. As for my bike, it is now so heavily modified, I could not bare to part with it, even if I end up not able to ride her anymore. I am very aware that the future holds for me the prospects of autoscooters and a life devoid of cool SV fun, but I am not there yet. To this end, I am currently experimenting with capsaicin cream on my fingers, but after putting that on my hands, I cannot even wipe my foo after a wee with out it stinging like I am sat on fire ants! :smt119

Re: Clutch advice
 

A hydraulic clutch conversion may help, Venhill (Dorking Surrey IIRC) do them. However, you may want to ride a bike with an equivalent hydraulic clutch to see if the improvement is worth it.

The other thing you could do is change the lever ratio, make the clutch disengage less for the same lever movement. This could be done with a cable based ratio adaptor (old school MX bikes used to use them), or a longer lever on the clutch release mechanism. Both easier to achieve than your suggestions.

I don't think a foot operated clutch would be very usable, and certainly difficult to achieve mechanically.

How about a different bike, with a hydraulic clutch as standard? The Hayabusa has an exceptionally light clutch.

Re: Clutch advice
 

...that is an extremely different ride...

...they do have a light clutch, and if you are respectful, they are easy and forgiving to ride, for such a powerful heavy machine, but not at all lighthearted like the SV650...

...they can actually can make speed a bit boring...one may find one's self at 100mph quite by accident...

...unfortunately, all the laws physics still apply...

Re: Clutch advice
 

hydraulic clutches are a little easier but not by much as they still use the same worm gear. to make a hydraulic clutch easier it needs to be servo assisted like a car.

if you know a very good alloy welder (or use mechanically tapped and threaded bar) you could get the lever made longer and move the perch further down the bar. this will give longer lever ratio so easier to pull.

the routing and type of clutch cable make a huge difference, the less the inner is rubbing on the outer the less friction is needed, a straight cable (without the bent ferrule) routed properly should be easier to pull.

do some research on disabled trike mods, they might have an answer.

Re: Clutch advice
 

Maybe it's a Silver K3 thing but my clutch is anything but light. I think I have arthritis on my left hand now caused by commuting on it. Still painful even tho I've been off it for over 3 weeks.

Re: Clutch advice
 

Sorry, didn't mean to imply a Busa is in any way similar to an SV650.

My point was, clutches can be very light on bikes, the Busa has a spring assistance which really works. I am sure there will be other bikes with equally light clutches. The OP may find it better to just change bikes, rather than big mods to an SV650.

But yes, a Busa is surprisingly easy and light to ride, it is a joy in traffic (except for its width), the weight really does disappear. Conversely, it makes 100mph feel like 50, they are so damn fast and comfortable.

Re: Clutch advice
 

Apparently there are normal clutches and a couple of other types, slipper clutches (designed to limit engine braking and stop rear tyre skidding, these have ramps that lift plates against normal spring pressure to limit friction when clutch is being driven the wrong way ) and slip assist clutches which have lighter springs and lever action but have 'ramps' within clutch mechanism that increase the pressure on plates when accelerating ( when engine is driving clutch ).

Re: Clutch advice
 

Slipper clutches aren't 'clutches' in the context of this conversation. As in, they don't replace your clutch.

Re: Clutch advice
 

Bikes I've ridden with hydraulic clutches weren't noticeably lighter than cable. Bibio, they don't use the worm gear, they just have a slave piston that acts on the pushrod - the ones I've seen anyway.

Re: Clutch advice
 

A slipper clutch is still a clutch, just modified to limit amount of friction available when rear wheel is trying to drive engine, but the slip-assist clutch is of interest because the spring load and hence the force needed from handlebar lever to operate is reduced by the fact that as it takes up the drive special ramps force the plates together to supply the missing spring pressure, so the more power you try to put through it the tighter it grips.

Re: Clutch advice
 

You'll fair no better with a hydraulic clutch. While they remove some of the mechanical tension, the effort is still there to pull it in.

As someone who's had tendinitis in the left wrist for a few years, I feel your pain - albeit mine is clearing up.

You can get the following:

https://www.revzilla.com/product/moo...-clutch-system

or

https://www.24mx.co.uk/easy-clutch-system-1 *virtually same thing as above*

Or one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EZ-Pull-Clut...-/142370236447

Otherwise, go see your GP again, suggest he/she look at steroid injections and weight training to strengthen everything around the problem tendon/muscle. I know they might make you go away (this is what happens when people vote Tory and are complicit in f*cking over the NHS) but just keep pushing for it.

Good luck :)

Re: Clutch advice
 

Have you considered/tried a cheap-ish option e.g an Adjustable Clutch lever?

I've bought a set(Clutch and Brake) for my 1999 SV but not fitted them yet.Work has now got me so I won't be able to fit and test for a couple of weeks.

The reason I suggest it is that on my Old Hondas I fitted,"Dog-Leg" levers also called,"Power Brake" levers.These brought the levers closer to the bars and easier to use and I think the adjustable one should be able to do the same.

The Dog-Leg ones don't look that different but the really work as those couple of mm makes all the difference.

Also I use a Plastic type tennis ball(ASDA Supermarket) as an exercise device to keep the strength in my hands.


HTH :eek:

http://pi.roostin.com/images/items/l.../X001-Y031.jpg

Re: Clutch advice
 

I never had any joy with adjustable levers (I always fit them as standard anyway - to all my bikes). You don't change the leverage point, bringing it in closer to the bar brings the bite point closer as well...so you end up having to tug it in all the way to the bar whether you like it or not. Finding the sweet spot (for me this is about two notches in from the further out setting) allows me to just lightly grab at the clutch lever and it's enough to let me kick up/down.

Another thing to try (talking of mechanical leverage) is to push the entire lever assembly in towards the centre of the bar as much as you can. The furthest part of the lever is always the lightest.

But I still say steroid, physio and weight training will help a lot more than any of the above.

Re: Clutch advice
 

fit an adjustable lever
https://www.sv650.org/sv_faq.htm#adj...clutch%20lever

Fit a better cable
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/produc...2413-venhill-/

may also be possible to get steel lever on clutch end of cable made slightly longer (steel easier to weld than ally), this would reduce pull force required.

May be worth checking out this thread, it has instructions for stripping / refurbing / regreasing the ball screw mechanism to make it work as best it can.
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=227208&page=3

Re: Clutch advice
 

I think you need to go for some sort of leverage advantage so you have to pull less for the same effect. Unfortunately if you half the force you will halve the movement which would make getting the clutch to work very tricky.
Alternatively and probably pricey is a linear electric motor. The clutch lever moves a potentiometer and the motor moves in relation to the output signal.
Good luck and I hope you sort out a solution.

Re: Clutch advice
 

I agree.I've had an ongoing battle over the past several years to keep riding including Physio/Corticosteroid injections in my shoulder and now I exercise everyday.Not weight training but use one of those,"L shaped" mini gyms with elasticated hand exercisers called a,"Wondercore".


https://tinyurl.com/y75u3t6f

Not only have I lost weight and toned up;my hands etc are much stronger.

I recently rode 240 miles in a day on my SV over all kinds of roads/hills and dales etc and was fine :)

but I always keep a couple of Ibuprofen tablets with me just in case ;-)

Re: Clutch advice
 

I had a subacromial decrompression, bursa removal and rotator cuff repair done on my right shoulder, I know your pain mate!

On the wrist topic....Going "white knuckle" (grip quite literally as hard as you can) is about the best thing you can do to strengthen your wrist and forearms (as they're very hard to isolate).

You can do this in a few ways, my favourites:

Close grip chinup bar: hang and squeeze until you know your knuckles are going white - as a beginner, 30 seconds is usually enough, train until you can hang for about teo minutes at full grip strength. You're also giving your full shoulder, elbow, forearm and wrist a really good stretch.

Deadlifts: The absolute daddy of exercises. This'll smash most muscles and train your central nervous system to take a beating. Your endurance, grip strength and biker muscles will all improve massively in a short space of time. 1 set of working weight of 5 reps, twice a week. That's all that's need for most people.

Wrist curls: Lay forarms on thighs when sat down so the bend of your wrist can contour your knee - use a barbell and curl full range of motion. Do it until your forearms are screaming for forgiveness.

All the above require you to grip as hard as you possibly can, or you're just not working the relevant muscles enough.

Re: Clutch advice
 

...have you considered not using the clutch so much...???...

Re: Clutch advice
 

Thank you everyone for your input, there are some excellent suggestions in there, some of which are genius ideas that I had not even thought of, such as moving my clutch lever inboard... Why did I not think of this super simple idea? I am a moron! :smt102

Anyway, to answer some small points made in there too.

I have a custom handle bar set up with a DL650 clutch cable, the routing is very smooth and the cable runs very lightly. My worm gear is very well greased and runs very smoothly, I doubt that I could get a softer cable pulled clutch. I also have adjustable levers fitted and because I have small hands, the lever travel is limited, but they have been brilliant up until now. My front brake lever is perfect especially when combined with the Yamaha blue spot calipers I have fitted (See my build thread). Even with my weakened fingers, stoppies are a little too easy! Despite having this lot though my left hand starts to hurt within minutes of riding due to my fingers being twisted and not bending normally. I can only wear thin gloves to ride in, which makes winter riding horrible!

To further complicate the issue, I have a spinal problem as well which is why my bike is so heavily modified in the first place. Basically, I am worn out and useless. If I were dog, I would have been put to sleep long ago! :laughat:

My reason for not buying another bike is that I am out of work and have to rely on my partner. Spending lots of money on a newer bike or scooter is just not viable, especially when I ride only once or twice a week on warm days.

I have been treated by the specialist arthritis hospital and have orange goo for physio, it feels like a non-Newtonian fluid in that it is soft until I have to squeeze it! Steroid injections have been denied because it is all of my fingers joints and they are twisting. I also have bone growths that are making my fingers crooked. I have asked to have the bone growths removed in surgery, but this has also been denied. At only just 43, this is distressing.

Without getting too political, I am not a Tory voter and I was also involved in the local campaign to support the NHS. However, I believe that it is the chronic underfunding of the NHS that is making treatment harder for me to get rather than the NHS being rubbish, every specialist I have seen has been fantastic. I was discharged from the pain clinic after ten weeks and told to go to a private practice, which I have been forced to do. Psychological support in my area is non existent and our local hospital is facing closures of some departments. It is looking very bleak.

I was also a professional climber for several years and used to do one arm pull ups. I was climbing at French 6b or English E2/3 grades which sped up the damage to my fingers. Strength is not my problem, hypermobility (Why I was such a good climber) and other conditions combined with arthritis throughout my joints is what has done the damage. Physio has to be gentle now or it makes things worse.

I shall now investigate those links to hydraulic conversions, they sound interesting. :smt055

Re: Clutch advice
 

Now this looks very interesting.

http://www.venhill.co.uk/Magura_Clut...ONVERSION.html

http://www.venhill.co.uk/images/prod...120689%20L.jpg

Re: Clutch advice
 

You need heated grips, will help massively with thin gloves in the winter.

Re: Clutch advice
 

The NHS is bloody fantastic and absolute concrete evidence that democratic socialism is great. As are schools, uni's (until Blair ruined that one for us all), the fire service....so on and so forth.

ANYWAY! I digress. The hydraulic clutch you've linked to looks good. But please don't think that hydraulic will be a magic fix. The reality of hydraulic clutches is that it's a bit easier as you haven't got a cable under tension that required both modulation and additional effort, as the cable has a constant "put me back to my untensed state, please" requirement.

Pulley systems allow very weak people to lift incredible amounts of weight. Might be worth looking into something along those lines. I have spied one or two over time (I did a LOT of investigation a few years back when my wrist was particularly bad) alas, I've no idea where they are now. I could have a good old search for you tonight though :)

Re: Clutch advice
 

if you can grip ok then how about turning a throttle into a clutch so instead of pulling your turning to engage/disengage the clutch. you would have to find out if it is legal though.

you could modify a left hand thumb brake into a clutch using a hydraulic lifter. scroll down http://www.versastep.co.uk/p/versastep-products.html

Re: Clutch advice
 

This is something that I have thought about, but I worry that it will make my grips too fat. I use really thin rubber grips at the moment and have even thought about swapping to thin Odi's from my MTB.

I could not agree with you more. I am currently reading political philosophy for fun ( I know, what a nerd!) and this aspect of it really appeals to me. I am an old school leftie it seems.

This is something that I am considering greatly. £300 is a lot to spend on what could be a bit of a turkey. Given that I run my lever close to my bar though (small hands), I am concerned that I may lose yet more travel.

Re: Clutch advice
 

The grip idea is interesting, I currently use a paddle on my throttle so that I control that with the palm of my hand, doing the same with the clutch has potential.

Now that is very interesting, I also love the variable foot peg idea too, that would solve another issue I have with lifting my feet up.

Re: Clutch advice
 

I also have trouble with pain in my left hand on longer rides. I converted my curvy to hydraulic clutch using TL1000 parts and although it worked perfectly there was no significant improvement and I have now gone back to cable. I have been off my bike for nearly a year now waiting for a an anterior cervical discectomy at C6/C7 (basically the nerve to my right arm is trapped in my neck). I've had excellent treatment from the NHS in the past but all this waiting has really wound me up. I hope you find a solution - I'm sure you'll share it with us if you do.

Re: Clutch advice
 

"suicide clutches" were once fairly commonplace - perhaps these are still legal?
Basically using a foot pedal as a clutch, meaning you couldn't put one of your feet down so if you overbalance whilst stopped you also take off into traffic. Hence the name. Most designs had a locked position so this didn't happen.

And no-one would steal your bike :D

Re: Clutch advice
 

Its just a pointy pos anyway, bring it to me Jayne and i'll give it the old yeller treatment :p

xGx

Re: Clutch advice
 

Let's get one thing straight. This is NOT the NHS's fault, there's a concerted effort from the Tories to make the NHS appear totally inadequate. The push for an American style, privatised health system is happening under our noses, right here, right now. Branson just got awarded ANOTHER massive chunk of the NHS - Virgin Care is taking over, he's also in the process of suing the NHS for not awarding him other contracts. How's that for you? Just as G4S will inevitably replace the Police and (probably) the armed forces as we know them.

Couple that with a unanimous vote from the Tories to continue public sector pay caps (they cheered when they won the nays) and you have nurses walking out, left, right and center. When Supermarkets offer a better salary than NHS nurses who have trained for five years, you know there's something fundamentally wrong with the government and society as a whole.

Re: Clutch advice
 

Bib's twisty clutch is something I suggested to someone a few years back, he'd broken his wrist and it was pretty weak after that. Travel of clutch and throttle are most likely different, but you could modify the lever at the worm end to change its length and get to the leverage you want. He never tried it BTW, he was just looking for ideas.

Re: Clutch advice
 

there is less travel in a clutch but whether the twisty (throttle) mech would be strong enough is the question. a lever has a fulcrum which aids in the pulling but a throttle has not. i personally think it would need a helping hand with an extra pulley/lever mech somewhere along the line.

i'm liking the thumb clutch idea but i guess it would take a while to get used to the biting point.

now if some smart arz could invent a squeeze grip clutch :-)

Re: Clutch advice
 

I have just been out to the shops and after less than two minutes I could not hold my clutch properly, so this is getting serious now. I am thinking about trying a shorter lever and I have contacted Venhill to ask if the Magura lever comes in three fingers rather than four.

I am wondering if a short stubby lever would work on the current system. Time to look for a cheap Chinese lever. :D

Re: Clutch advice
 

shorter lever is not the answer as it takes more effort to pull. if you want to only use 2-3 fingers then move the lever down the bar that way you still have the leverage but only using the end of the lever.

Re: Clutch advice
 

Here's an alternative solution, but its pretty expensive... http://efmautoclutch.com/

There's lots of info about control modifications at the N.A.B.D. website: http://www.nabd.org.uk/

Re: Clutch advice
 

I think you should bite the bullet and get an automatic bike. I know you said finances are tough at the moment, but it's that or essentially give up biking (by the sounds of it).

I had a VFR1200 for a while, wasn't for me in all honesty but it was a wonderful bike. Build quality second to none, the power was almost breathtaking...a 160bhp V4 is something to behold. Better still, the automatic version (mine was manual) is like a hyper turbo mega nutter moped...that comes with a nifty semi automatic option to allow you to get fruity if the desire takes you.

Can be had for about £5.5k with full luggage, heated grips (thin grip) and reliability that would bend your mind.

Re: Clutch advice
 

Well apart from the multiple catastrophic engine failures necessitating total engine swaps http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/n...alls-vfr1200f/

And the drive shaft failures which resulted in a VOSA recall: http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/rec...k&tx=0.3913538

Honda badge is absolutely no guarantee of reliability, quite the reverse.
Never buy an early example of any new model of Honda motorbike, always give it at least two years.

Re: Clutch advice
 

http://www.labusas.org/forum/showthr...-Quick-shifter

...he doesn't HAVE TO USE THE CLUTCH SO MUCH...

...I was not being factitious when I said this...who uses the clutch to upshift anyway...?!?...

...there is a mater of method and it should change constantly...

...never lock your self into one position or motion...

...fwiw, Hapo don't need no stinkin' quick shift...but it will help, as it gives the hands even less to do...

...I like to keep 'em moving and lubed up or they go numb and stop working so well...

...I have carpel tunnel syndrome and Arthur itis as well...at 63 I am Beyond Pain, eh...it is part of the game now...the game of LIFE...

Re: Clutch advice
 

...sometimes it hurst too much to wrap me hand around the grip, so I don't do that...

...that makes me arm sore after a bit, so I wrap me mitt around the grip for a spell, eh...

...when I do use the clutch I just blip it a bit, not mash it back, unless holding it in at a light...

...then I avoid the opposable thumb thing as much as possible...builds the arms up it does...

...I always leave it in gear ready to LAUNCH at any stop and keep a whether eye on me 6, but that is another topic...

Re: Clutch advice
 

Everyone who doesn't want to pay for gearbox repairs.

Re: Clutch advice
 

...I have more posts than you so just shove off...!!!...(grin)

...seriously though...I haven't had to repair a gear box in all my years of riding...

...