AR Marking Discussion
 

Righto

it seems one of the issues with the AR is how the marking is being done.

I posted my thoughts on the matter in the big forum debate thread but one of the other mods has suggested that its getting lost in amongst the general discussion.

This is my thoughts on the matter

Personally speaking I led some of last years AR and I did TEC for most of it. I wanted a group of riders who I trusted would stop where I wanted them to. I felt this especially important, on the day I had 80 odd bikes behind me, one missed junction because somebodies not familiar with the drop off system would have led to utter chaos.

The idea behind the set markers was that.

There were 6 odd that have run the route before and knew it
The rest were made up with people who I had utmost faith in, i.e. I trusted them to stop and stay there till the TEC came past.

I've been on plenty rideouts where junctions dont get marked or somebody gets bored and decides not to wait. I've been on them, I've been mid pack and faced with a junction where I didnt know where to go. Its bl**dy annoying and frustrating sometimes.

I appreciate the point about being involved and that last year some people were denied that opportunity, but I feel on this point that its a necessary evil in order to ensure the rideout goes smoothly and people dont get lost.

I think its a credit to the system and the markers running with it that nobody last year got lost. Nobody feell off and everybody seemed to really enjoy it. We had a small issue with Messie and road rage that Grinch deallt with and some dodgy overtaking but that was about it from what I saw

So discuss. Does the system work. Do we mess with a system that has been run previously and proven do work. Is the removal of the opportunity for participation on this fair or not fair. Is the removal of participation so that the rideout progresses smoothly and nobody gets lost due to non marked junctions worth sacrificing some level of participation on.

I know that on AR08 when we started the 2nd leg out of Dorchester we could have done with a few more markers as some people that didnt have marker vests on stopped and marked the junction.

Just because theres a dedicated marker system in place, my thoughts are that it does not prevent anybody from stopping and marking a junction thats not been marked or that the feel needs marking.

But... marking is not an excuse to ride like a complete moron and bully your way through the pack whillst making a series of dodgy / dangerous overtakes...

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

I wasn't at AR08 and have only been on a couple of rides where the marker system was employed.

My view is - if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

That said perhaps the number of markers needs careful consideration.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

I have been on one big ride on here where folks got lost. Having said that I too don't like feeling I am on a guided tour in a sea of yellow. I have been on trail rides with a big group (20....don't even ask!) where my own refusal to wear yellow resulted in folks getting lost (but the circs then are different and they deserved it :lol:)

I think some may think the markers are some form of an elite clique. Maybe. BUT without them you run into trouble. I have had more than one occassion where someone has contacted me and said 'I'll tail end your group for you' and then they don't have a clue what the route is, despite their assurances. Yes, they wanted a bigger role, but it resulted in more hassle for me. It's also surprising the numebr of folks who have neither a clue where they are or can apply common sense with directions and locations. And don't even go to can they read a map!

Its all very well wanting a go at marking, but if you have any uncertainty you are much better just enjoying the ride.

Ok, I know marking can be thought of as not needing to know the route, as the leader and TEC will do but in a large AR type group if you don't you are asking for trouble in event of breakdown, problems, the unexpected that will usually happen. Remember also some of these people will be those who have proven they can troubleshoot a bike problem, mend a tyre etc. Would you rather be stuck with a marker who would call the AA or one who might check if your battery lead has just fallen off? In a large group that is also a consideration.

For me its the call of the run organiser and when I occasionally have organised a run to be able to relax you need people behind you you can trust, there's plenty to do leading a run and I don't think some folks appreciate it. Its also at times especially when you have new people rather stressful, which people should bear in mind.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

One small point - the route as I have ridden does not seem to need a huge number of markers. By this mean I don't think there are any sections where there are more than about 4-6 junctions in a row, so I don't think we're going to run out

Having said that though, Supervox is the expert on the route and what's needed

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

My thoughts on the matter were. The system clearly works but can it improve so it is more enjoyable. I suggested greater rider involvment and participation by everyone marking and playing a greater role in the ride.

It would be more pressure on everyone as it would take a greater amount of communication so everyone understands the system.

I have been on rides where it has worked really well but it means you need to spell out beforehand how it works as well as on the day. As well as empowering everyone to play a greater role it allows more freedom to move about. It's a buzz to see bikes going past you if you are marking and know you are part of the ride. You dont get to experience this being number 56 of 80 throughout the ride.

I've been on rides where people have been confused and marking hasnt worked but all of these happened where riders werent clearly informed before the event how the system works. It's probably the most common fault and then organisers point the fingure at individuals.

Anyways it was just a suggestion on how things can be perhaps maybe improved and I was just coming up with some ideas. For the record I wasnt unhappy about the current system at all as my only AR was 06 - it was just an idea to get people more involved on the day.

Cheers,
Grant

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Having marked at AR07 I have to say that the system just works - end of. I had absolutely no idea of the route before hand but just waited until I was the next marker behind the leader and stopped when he pointed to the place he wanted me to. It was pouring with rain throughout the whole rideout and no-one got lost, fell off etc.

I think this is the problem - people have seen how it works and want to be one of the supposed "priviledged few" who get to overtake everyone and make it back to the front rather than being "herded" from one stop to the next. Not everyone can do it and I totally agree with Fizz that it makes sense for them to be trusted individuals selected by the organisers - I wouldnt have been chosen for the AR07 marking if I hadnt joined the Soho lot in the ride up to Yorkshire as otherwise they would have had no idea as to the way I ride and whether I was the sort of person who would be sensible about the whole thing. There is no point having a bunch of "hot-heads" (which lets be honest are the sort of riders who would be saying "me, me, me" to be a marker) as risks could be taken where unneccessary.

Just my 2p...

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

That would be great if there wasn't such a wide range of ability in the group on the AR.

Dedicated Markers, who have the skill and ability to safely out-ride the average attendee to get back into position to mark are the only way I see of it really working.

Personally its Voxy's baby, let him sort it out as he sees fit, its not really an aspect that requires democratic debate......

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

The AR is such a big ride, it would be all too easy for something to think 'someone else will mark this turn' and something is not marked, folks get lost. Plus there are so many bikes (and not all SVs) that you would not recognise most of the bikes on the ride and can easily leave at the wrong moment, folks get lost....

So having designated markers that know the route works well, everyone knows where they stand WRT marking and can relax.

I say leave things as they are.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

I've been to 3 AR's now and marked 2, and this year I'd rather not mark as I want to enjoy the ride as I'm hoping to get pic's on route. Something that me marking as well will make a touch more difficult.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

me too. Don't understand why people want to mark. You can't help if help isn't required. I'd much prefer an experienced group of markers to a bunch of people who are only doing the job cos they shouted loudly about it.

Was it AR04 when a big bunch of us got lost?

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Yep its all well saying everyone mark.. but I don't want to. And some people of less riding experience might not be happy with it. This system works, so I don't think it needs changing.
Plus I have 4x4's to hassle.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

[quote=Grinch;1908377]Yep its all well saying everyone mark.. but I don't want to. And some people of less riding experience might not be happy with it. This system works, so I don't think it needs changing.
Plus I have 4x4's to hassle.[/quote]


I hope you don't!

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

It is some of the problem. I think some of the problem is that people dont understand how stressy it is leading a big group of riders, When you have a dozen or so on a regional rideout its not so bad, But I was very nervous about the AR rideout.

But not having markers IMHO encourages racing / aggressive riding and the AR ride is IMHO not the place for it. Let me give some examples if I may

I got buzzed on AR06 by somebody maknig their way up through the pack, He passed me so close at speed that it made me jump out the seat, I reckon I could have moved my elbow out by a CM or two and he would have hit my elbow.

I got aggressively overtaken by somebody else doing the same to the point I had to brake so hard to avoid hitting the back of them that I nearly sent my pillion into orbit.

I didnt pick last years markers on riding ability, If thats how it is being percieved then that is the wrong perception.

I picked last years markers because I knew

That they would stop to mark a junction

That they would stop in a safe place and not put themselves or others in danger

That they would wait at the junction until TEC came into sight or caught them up

When I was out in front leadnig I didnt want to have to worry about whether junctions were marked and when my Dad was out in front leading I didnt want him worrying about it either. Dad was worried about leading as he had never done so for such a big group of riders, he said to me afterwards how well the ride had gone and that he liked seeing a group of Yellow bibs behind him as he knew that the route would be marked properly. It made him more relaxed and he enjoyed his day a hell of lot more because of it.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

I'm not against a change in the system if we can agree a away that will WORK.

AR06 got to be a bit of a joke at points. I remember riding with another bike beside me who i know. She shouted across that she was looking forwad to dropping off and would i stop with her to look at something on her bike.

It was John (ride leader) then us 2 and then a fair gap before the rest of the pack. Until a group of 3 or 4 bikes decided that they wanted to be in front of us and mark again, i was fairly sure they had dropped off a couple of junctions before to mark so they must have ridden thru the pack pretty fast to get back up here.

And the fact they had no respect for us 2 waiting in line behind the ride leader was just pathetic to be honest. So they drop off at the next junction and me and friend think 'great, our turn next' until the next couple of idiots decide to fly past us, almost past John too and pull in just in time to drop off again.

the point of marking is NOT the ability to ride like a muppet back to the front and scare the bejezzuz out of some on the way. Its to simply make sure no-one gets lost.

Now the difficulty i see is fiuring out who wants to mark and who dont out of the whole pack. Grinch for example is capable and has done it before but simply doesnt want to and tere should be no pressure on him or anyone else who deosnt want to, for whatever reason, to join in and do it.

Demonz...i know how he rides and the coupe of times ive ridden with him in small groups has been pure joy. hes fast, safe and above all fully aware of the riders(s) behind him when making overtakes and other moves. Using him as an example only cos i know how he rides. No reason why he cant be a marker in either system as far as i'm concerned.

However, if we want the whole group to participate how do we, on the day, know who doesnt want to mark without simply asking tem to stay in a pack together at the back of the ride? really dont want to see tons of peeps with bibs on who are happy to mark and less without bibs cos again it creates this unseen "them and us" mentality that we dont want.

So suggestions please about how we can make a system work that includes everyone.

And PLEASE can we keep this thread ONLY about how to set up a system that works and not about who wnats to do it this way or that way.

if you have a constructive idea abuot a new system, lets hear and discuss it please.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Why change something that works and is safe.

I dont meant to be funny here but, the only reason why people are even contemplating changing this is because it is felt that people who are markers have a little "power" over others.

So instead of just ignoring the few, who seem to have ego agendas going on, other posibilities are now going to be considered that quite frankly will be a less safe option for the majority.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Markers worked on AR04,05,06 and 08. (Couldn't make 07).

Dedicated markers work even better. Especially if carefully selected. There are a few who marked 08 that in my opinion just used it as an excuse to ride like an idiot. I don't think anyone should volunteer; everyone should wait to be asked if they wish to participate. So long as you have markers who know what they are doing, it is completely irrelevant if they have ever run the route before or not. There are plenty of people involved with the organisation this year to find enough people they consider have the skills required to participate.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

There is only one "problem" I see with this.

As mentioned, some people see the Markers as being "special" and getting treated differently.

So if a group or people that ride regularly together end up getting chosen for just that reason - ie they know each others capabilities, then there are going to be people complaining about cliques ad the like.

To my mind being a marker is not a great thing, you have to stop, maybe in the middle of a VERY enjoyable bit of riding, then wait at the side of the road for however long until the TEC appears, then you are under pressure to get to the front before the next x junctions are passed, in a safe and considerate manner.

I can appreciate why Grinch has said "thanks but no thanks" already this year.

Again, Supervox has planned the route, he probably already knows how many markers he needs, and I am sure he has a number of people picked out for that, and if he's coming up short, will ask them in turn for their recommendations.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

I never saw that, being either at the front or at the back.

Its important to pickup on what Simon is saying here. Its not an excuse to ride like a tw*t. If theres people out there reading this and are thinking

"If I'm marker then I can do what I want when I want and ride like a moron"

Then you've mis-understood the job.

I've got my name down for marking this year, I'm happy to give it up and let somebody else have a go, but you should understand just what you're getting into. Its not an easy job to make your way safely up through a big pack of riders....

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Totally in agreement here. It's a privilege not a right. In fact its not even a privilege its a job. If people actually want to stand wearing a fluoro bib at the side of the road... there's 363 other days of the year they can do that.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

I found 06 getting buzzed by a marker was just as annoying as those you riding with. Perhaps banning overtaking altogether would be a safer option - but rather boring too I guess.

I think the issue Anna brings up is a valid one and probably relates to the forum/mod issue again. Who is 'in' and not 'in' - and how to include those that feel excluded so the event is a greater success. Hence my suggestion for this. I agree with you all - the main thing is safety and if you feel it would be a compromise then its not worth it.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

IMHO if the markers are doing their jobs properly then you shouldnt get buzzed.

Example.

In AR06 I kept a good eye on my mirrors. I could see Sid Squid coming up to overtake me, he waited for a sec so he knew I had seen him. I let him know I had seen him, by indicating left slightly and moving over. He then waited till a clear piece of road and the overtook me leaving plenty of room and gave me a friendly wave as he went past.

He was safe, swift and smooth as he overtook me, he didnt cut in in front of me and left me room. I watched him repeat the process all the way through the pack of riders.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Quite, well said.

I do think though in response to the new bloke ;) further up the thread that it is a good idea for markers to know the route or at least have looked at a map in case they need to know where it is headed. But I do agree that if the job is done right that's not entirely necessary.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

+1 , ive been out on a rideout where we ( i say we, i was pillion) had to help mark, its no fun so i can't see why theres a big fuss over it all??
Id much rather be riding along than sat at a point in the sun/rain etc waiting for riders to pass me

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Sometimes people make mistakes in judgement... might have simply been that.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Yes - I doubt it was intentional, but them just trying to make fast progress.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

If they feel that way then they are mistaken of course. Its a responsibility that we all take on for the good of the ride.

To be honest i am agreed with this above all else.

And one way to kill those complaints would be to change it about a bit, if its a safe and sensible new idea. But tbh ive not seen anyone suggest a better way as yet.

Too right and if i or any of the others who have done marking were found to be guilty of this i would expect not only to be taken off marking duties but even possibly be asked to stay at the back with the TEC or go back to the site and not particiapte further in the ride.

As i say, i'm more than happy to give up my bib to someone like yourself Grant. I dont wanna keep going on about you and i''m sorry that i am but its just that out of the various groups i've riden with i've always liked your style of riding.
The majority of others i've ridden with have either not left any impression on me, good or bad, or are mainly those who have been chosen to be markers before due to their experience of riding together in groups.

One thing that comes with riding in groups with the same people often is you almost instinctively know what they are about to do or are thinking about doing so you allow for it.

Those who have been on rides where i have been TEC for example all know that if i flash my lights or beep my horn its a signal that ive seen them and they dont need to wait for me to get to them before they jump back on their bike and join back in, ths keeping the ride flowing and the traffic behind us happy.
Those who have ridden with me more often when ive been TEC know that as soon as they lay eyes on me they can go.
So its just natural to have a group take on a responsibility when they know each others riding well and can take cues from each other without the need to stop and discuss it and so spoil the flow of the ride.

For the record i think the "chosen in advance" group is the safest, simplest way, however if anyhone can suggest a system whereby other can be more involved, is safe and allows for those who wont want to join in then i'm all ears.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

I deliberately haven't read any of the posts above, other than the OP.

My thoughts on the subject, in order to achieve some sort of balance (as I can see both sides):

I don't see why the leader of the rideout, as happens on many other rideouts, can't say "OK, I need x markers, if you want to volunteer, go ahead. Closing date is x. From the volunteers I'll go through the list & see who I think would be suitable. If you don't get chosen, please don't get ar*ey about it, it's purely a numbers thing. If we don't get enough volunteers, I'm going to have to approach some people directly & privately to ask them if they'd be up for it."

That way, people would be asked for their contribution to it and the organiser(s) would have people they trusted.

However, that does have the problem of people volunteering, but then getting upset at not being chosen. If not enough people from the volunteers are chosen, then things revert to how they were before.

2pennies, spent. :)

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Speaking from a rider's perspective (ie not a marker, or a wannabe marker), when I'm in a massive group, I would like:

1) To know that every junction will be marked by someone who has taken responsibility for this job and will definitely be there (and will have the mobile number for at least several other known markers in the group and the leader & TEC).

2) That they will be easily visible to me if a gap has opened up and I'm the 'first' rider approaching the junction; eg wearing a yellow bib (which isn't possible if 'random' people in the group are dropping off as markers). Don't forget, we won't be the only group out riding in the countryside on a Saturday in August. All it takes is for a non-org bike to be parked up near a junction somewhere for one of us to think "oooh, are they one of ours?" and take a wrong turn.

3) To feel reassured that the markers who are making their way through the group are doing that job because the leader has chosen them for their safe, consistent and considerate riding ability. I'm sorry, but I'd rather have a wannabe feeling left out, than have them being chosen as a marker, regardless of known riding ability, just so that they feel included.

I'm totally happy for markers to be 'chosen' ones. Surely the main objective is to have a safe and smooth-running rideout? So if the ride leader is taking responsiblity for the ride then he / she should select people that they can trust to assist them with this.

The inevitable race to the front for unselected markers is a nightmare - as Spidey said, some people's riding manners have been appalling in the past (the difficult thing being that they were probably totally unaware that they were spooking less experienced riders).

As others have said, if it ain't broke (and 'broke' is a badly organised rideout, not a bruised ego)...

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Thanks Zig, but its not necessary. I'm not one for comitted marking or riding as free weekends are rarity in my life this year. My comments/ideas were only a suggestion to get people more involved (I hope in a positve way).

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Only problem i see with this sugestion is that it implies that the Ride Leader (RL) will be familiar with the riding ability and style of each of those who volunteered. If they're not then surely those are the first names the RL will chuck out and will only be left with the names of people who they are familiar with and have ridden with before....leaving them open again to accusations of favouritism.

haha, like i sadi mate i wa just using you as an exapmle cos you're in the thread, not a Soho-er and i've ridden with you and like your riding style. Never wanted you to think i was trying to pass the buck to you there ;)

I agreed with all of cazza's post but this bit in articular has to be thought about. One year the only person who went off track did so just for this reason. a bike that was just passing thru our pack turned off at a roundabout and the rider directly behind him assumed he was one of us and so followed him. Its was resolved quickly and easily enough but its all to easy for it to happen.

Also i did the same thing one the way to an AR one year. Thought i was following one of us until i realise we were on roads i'd already covered.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Thats what I did last year, Admitedly I didnt do it publically, but Strechie asked people locally if they would help out. Some of those people had already ridden the local stretches of road or some of it that we were riding on.

As ride leader I wanted some say in who was doing the marking, as per my original post in this thread.

Yet here we are, it would appear that some people appear to feel disgruntled even though I followed a process which you seem to be recommending.

I'm not reading anything at the moment, that makes me feel that the process is broken or doesnt work. I take the point about increaed feeling of participation, but my thoughts are that in this case the benefits of having pre-selected dedicated markers outweigh the disadvantages of not having the ride organised in this way.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

As you said in another thread recently, one thing that's needed is a certain element of transparency. NB, I'm not saying completely transparent, as that would make it a nightmare to organise, but I feel there has to be some sort of balance.

I know I'd certainly view marking for the AR differently had I known a group of people had been asked, rather than just talking to specific individuals.

Having lead, TEC'd, marked and just plain enjoyed pretty large rides, I know all too well that marking simply requires a certain level of riding (the confidence to stop when/where necessary more than anything), and a commitment to the task (so for example, any marker should implicitly know the route). So I fully appreciate the need to "vet" people wanting to mark - but I don't see it as something that needs local knowledge at all.

Afterall, if a marker marks the junction, and someone misses that marker (as has happened on previous rides), that marker cannot go & find the missing person - otherwise more people get lost because there's no marker. Someone else would have to either take up marking, or go & find the missing person. If markers are wearing bibs, whoever started marking the junction has no real option but to stay put.

The point about breakdowns & markers helping out, I don't really feel applies. Breakdowns happen at all sorts of places, not just junctions. There will be someone on the ride with enough technical knowledge to attempt to help. Even if that means the TEC calling someone & asking them to turn around to have a look.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Well I'm obivously not being listened to then, because I explained it last year, I explained it this year, I've explained in in 3 seperate posts now with regard to this year.

I'm starting to wander whether anybody actually reads what I write...

If I was anymore transparent about this particuar issue I feel I'd turn into the invisable mod...

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

did you say something fizz?

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

I was aksed on the day of the AR ride last year. others were too who politely turned down the offer IIRC.

So know you know Baph. ;)

I didn't know the route when i was aksed and tbh i dont think i needed to.

The point is that there is a group who are tasked with taking care of the rideout. If i was wearing a bib and saw 2 peeps pulled up, one clearly broken down and the other helping i'd know it was my job as the first there to pull up too. Even tho i probably have the least ability to help fix the breakdown. However i would have all the numbers for all the other markes in a fully chanrged up mobile, again somwthing i plan ahead for knowing i'm marking.
What use is a random stragner stopping to help who has no idea how to fix it or who to call to advise of the breakdwon? And how is this mecanichally mineded memeber of the ridout gonna answer his/her phone unless they have been previously asked to play such a role and be prepared to pull up if their phone rings...thus making them one of the marking team by default?

And it'd be silly for the TEC to stop as the other markers along the route will be waiting for him to come and ree them to go on and mark some more.

Oh and i just felt a cold shiver, like a breeze or ghost just went past me going "I am Fiiiiiiizzz, can you not see or hear me?" ;)

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

last year I offered my services along time before the AR and was told I was not needed.
I live local and could easily have gone over the route.
I now find out that people were asked on the day.
I AM SO ANGRY

NOT.
i have read what Fizz put and respect his decision, regarding people he knew he could rely on

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

That's the point about transparency. Knowing so after the event isn't exactly transparent organisation IMO. :)

From gid's reply, he offered last year, and was turned down. There could be many reasons for this, but you were obviously asked Spidey as someone felt there weren't enough markers, so someone had to make up numbers.

I kind of agree, just I feel that whatever rides I've been marking on (I hasten to add I've only attended one AR & didn't mark on that), I've made the effort to be aware of the route. Occasionally I've forgotten where I am due to singing to myself in the helmet though. :oops:

Anyone that's been on virtually any NW rideout with me will know I always stop to help out, be that a breakdown, an accident or a simple knock of confidence. That's if I'm wearing a "bib" (not that NW rideouts have them) or not, though to be fair I am usually in high-vis on a rideout.

We've had talks about not stopping if someone is pulled by Police, yet I still do. If they want a look at my bike, well, that's my fault for stopping. But I wouldn't leave someone stranded in the middle of nowhere not knowing the first thing about where they were going.

I don't get that at all. I know when my phone rings whilst I'm riding the bike (granted, not everyone will), and my phone is always set to only ring if it's key people calling me (not everyone has a phone that can do this) when I'm on a rideout. So by default I'd pull over & answer/call back. Again, that's if I'm marking or otherwise.

Other people will have setups like Autocom where they can talk & ride at the same time.

Being prepared to take/make a call whilst mobile on the bike isn't one of the criteria for being a marker as far as I'm concerned.

I wouldn't be the best person to talk to about say, a GSXR broken down at the side of the road, but I'd have a good crack at it, and carry most tools when I'm even out & about by myself. I've repaired numerous bikes at the roadside purely by being in the right place at the right time.

The whole point, at least to me, of having markers & TEC, is that if the TEC doesn't come, the marker waits indefinitely. If the ride has got so far, and the leaders are aware that markers aren't keeping up, the leader pulls over & gets the ride to re-group. At that point, anyone could be sent back to enquire about the hold-up.

What would happen if the TEC, for example, was taken out in a SMIDSY (not that I'd want that for a second but it illustrates the point of the TEC not arriving at a marked junction)?

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

Well, I'm quite happy to volunteer for the post. I hope my riding hasn't offended or scared anyone in the past*, I've marked the last 2 ARs and have great fun thinking up new and stupid poses to adopt while marking (Including AR07 when I was seen "marking" a junction with scent...)

This does not mean that I feel I have the right or the duty to assume I'm a better/faster/prettier/more special rider than anyone else, or that I should use my "privilege" to ride like a twonk. It just means that I understand the system and am reasonably good at communicating it to others (IE I have a good shouty voice!)

I think it was last year that we had me and a marker from another rideout marking the same junction, non-bibbed markers would have been confusing for them and us when they took a different route from us at the next junction! If it ain't broke...


*If I have, please PM me so I know as I'd hate for there to be something about the weekend that annoys anyone, 'specially if I cause it!

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

You're kinda contradicting yourself now. Which is it, a certain amount of transparency or every single person on the AR knowing about desicion making procesess? Or, and i say this is the nicest possible way, if you had been consulted it would have been alright then?

yes and he's not at all bother about it, so why bring it up? Like i said i want this discussion to be about a better system if anyone can come up with one, not just general chit chat abut the whole marking process and how it works or who was or wasn't chosen.

yes, i was walking along minding my own business and someone came up to me and said they wanted me to be a maker and would i mind. Why they were short never crossed my mind. I was asked to help the organisers and i happily agreed to. There really was nothing more to it than that, no funny sercet handshakes or any of that.

Ok thats you and again this is a discussion about smaller regional rides, not the AR which is far bigger and welcomes riders of all capapbilities.
I dont answer my phone when i ride my bike, ever. Not on a ride out, not when i'm late for something, never. The point you're not getting is that we would have to organise who this magically talented person is in advance and ask them if they would provide such a service and miss out on possibly a large part the rideout if needs be. If they agree then we may as well give them a bib so if/when another markes sees that person pulled up next to a broken down bike they can carry on knowing its taken care of. If they didn't have a bib then everyone on the marker team would have to slow up and try and remember if thats the person or not. Thus slowing down all the markers for no reason, bibs just make it clear its one of the team without the need to think about it.

Other people in other situations and other times. The whole of the marking team dont have or need or rely on communicating, they know the drill.

No one said it was :confused:

thus slowing up the whole group, making the entire group find somewhere suitably large and safe to pull up and wait. Why? If one or 2 can deal with problem at roadside and the rest of the pack can just carry on and not let it spoil their day?

as good a question as what would happen if a drunk driver drove head first into the lead pack of bikes.
We can allow for a certain number of contingencies, not every possibility.

Again Baph, i feel you're generalising about the whole idea of marking, not actually suggesting a new idea that we could discuss and disect looking for possible falws to the idea.

I aksed for this thread to please be about any ideas that anyone may have based on trying to give more people the feeling of participating, so if you have an idea i'd love to hear it, if not please lets not have huge long posts where we are just quoting each other and debating ideas about marking as a whole.

Re: AR Marking Discussion
 

I suggest you re-read my first post in this thread then.

I seriously fail to see why that discussion could not of been held out in the open, prior to the AR happening. That is the idea I'm putting forward for the next one, but you seem to be completely ignoring.