Employment issues- possiblly have a case?

post aimed at people who may have been through the same or have good legal knowledge

So the story begins,

i work in an insurance dep on a dialler based system ( this is a new system we now have) this system automatcilly dials numbers in a database and when someone picks up connects the call to a operator ( me) now whilst it was doing this we have a blank screen on our computer,

our comapny policy is no personal internet usage, but untill recently they decided to allow, reading of books, magazines, browsing the net etc,

they decided to take it away the other day, i was still browsing after that, ( just to note when we use the internet, and a customer connects in brings they systems page to the front) they argue i could lack concentration on this but cant prove it, nor can they prove it decrease my work performace, i cant argue it doesnt either, but im not the worse performer in our workplace..

im now on suspention wating for my meeting monday-

now my points in this are-
I wasnt onyl browsing when we had no work on
i didnt visit any sites such as porn,illegal activites etc
the company seems to change its view on policys and enforcement when it chooses, like 3 weeks ago i was told it was fine being online despit the comapnys internet policy,
No one else has been pulled for this- ( they gave me a list about 20 pages long of sites saysing excessive use, which when i examined was alot of the same site, ) it was actually about 25 pages in a 2 hour period,
i have seen managers and other employees online, some have sent sexual expliti content in a email to others, and none of this has been pulled up.

now i think ( i am unsure) i may have 1 previos warning for this, but cannot be sure, they say ive been warned on numerous occasions, ( i havent and there is no record of it, other than the 1)

the company or dep i work in is a trail at the moment, if it doesnt work we all get made redunant and the other day they told us things are not working at the moment,

i feel a little like a scape goat if im dismissed over this as a warning for other employee's, and dont agree it should be counted as gross misconduct which they are classing it as

if i do lose my job ( i would hope to be given a final warning) but if worse comes to worse do i have a case for unfair dismissal,

as im on the understadning, they could have given me a final warning, with time scale for improvement, and also that the comapnys policys are confusing in there enforcement,

?any advice or help would be great, im very new to this,

[SoulKiss]

Its completely irrelevant what others do, UNLESS it was to be part of a discrimination issue.

They said dont do it, you did it, end of.

Not nice, but how it will go down.

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

They said dont do it, you did it, end of.

Not nice, but how it will go down.

I disgaree. Its rarely one strike and you're out.

How long have you been there James? More/less than a year?

I can only suggest the following from my own experience;

Do you have a union rep or something similar? If so then make sure they are present at the meeting and any following meetings if they are not, then no matter what have no meeting without them. The meetings on Monday don’t go in by yourself.

Ensure that there is a minute taker, request a copy of the minutes in a timely manner; check them to ensure they are correct and reflects what has happened. If they don't then challenge it.

If the meeting takes a wrong turn, i.e. becomes personnel then end it don't let it carry on. State that its over and walk out.

Seek legal advice see where you stand. Also find out if there is peer support within the organization. Do they have SOP around this, if so what do they say, have they been followed in your case? Any previous case history?

It could be useful to find any outside expert advice; note you don't always have to pay for this.

Good luck; the above is just an informed opinion and nothing else it isn't legal advice in any way.

If its company policy to not allow internet access then ask to see there IT useage statement. They should have one and it should describe what there exact rules are about the internet.

I would also say that if they have warned you before it will only count if you have been officially warned and you were told that a verbal warning was going in your record. Your boss simply coming up and telling you off is worth Jack in arbitration unless backed up by formal verbal or written warnings.

You need to seek legal advice though, as it sounds like they are using it as an excuse to "reduce the numbers". But be warned abuse of internet use is a common way of getting rid of someone without paying redundancy as a lot of people either abuse it or are simply not aware of the internet policy where they work.

[Bri w]

Previous warnings have to be logged on your personnel file, and will have a time limit, i.e. they can't holdd something against you that you did x years ago. Ask to view your personnel file, including the warnings. Take notes of dates and times of warnings - you might even find you were on hols when a warning was given.

DO TAKE A WITNESS INTO THE MEETING WITH YOU. Takes notes of the meeting (they are contemperaneous notes and constitute a legal doc, like a plod's notebook). Ask them for minutes of the meeting - they should tally with yours, and your witnesses.

Something that isn't/wasn't permitted but has been openly used by many may constitute a change to contract, even if it wasn't in writing. But you have to prove it was used openly. They may refuse to give you the IT log but if it goes to a tribuneral for unfair dismissal they will have to provide a copy.

If it looks like a slapped wrist for excessive usage, take it. Even if you think its unfair or harsh. Beating the system is pretty much impossible if they've decided a course of action. But the 'yes sir, no sir' can take a bit of wind out of their sails.

Good luck.

suspenede thursday afternoon, meeting monday, no union rep but will ask a collegue to be present,

previous warnings- unsure- possibly 1, unsure of time, they say numerous but i do no that there is only the possible 1, nothing else on record,

dismissal seems harsh, final warning, maybe, id still appeal, but does seem like they are trying to cut down on numbers,

it usage- is no unathorized use, no excessive personal use, only use for bonafid work purposes, yet i have witnessed constant use by a number of people over the year, including a team leader doing her shopping online,

been with comapny 2.5 years,

my main points are for this meeting and this is just some of them

1, i dont agree my usage was excessive
2. comapny polcies are not upheld on a even playing field ( bascily why am i the only one)

my first meeting some notes were taken down but reading through them, wat i said has not been noted down in full and i dont agree with some stuff in it, they didnt ask me to sign it so in my view i can contest those notes,

only worried aswell about a reference, i would asusme they can refuse one if im dismissed, however i have been in contact with someone who was fired for gross miscodcut for use of the comapny email system to send a picture of his private area to his girlfriend, and he said they fired him for gross misconduct but still said they would happily give a reference for his new job and not mention it ( wonder if im entitled to the same treatment)

Originally Posted by james160987

my main points are for this meeting and this is just some of them

1, i dont agree my usage was excessive
2. comapny polcies are not upheld on a even playing field ( bascily why am i the only one)

my first meeting some notes were taken down but reading through them, wat i said has not been noted down in full and i dont agree with some stuff in it, they didnt ask me to sign it so in my view i can contest those notes,

First things first - don't argue on points of principle (eg "they'rea ll donig it"), but argue on points of fact. The best way to do this is to make sure they have done things properly:

• When did they change the IT policy? How did they publicise the change?
• Do you know what the company disciplinary policy is? Have they stuck to it? WEre you offered the opportunity to take someone with you to your last meeting? Did they give you adequate notice of the meeting? how will they handle your dispute of their minute-taking? do they have a grievance procedure?
• Did they write to you saying that you'd been given a warning? Was it formal or informal? What was the expiry date of the warning? Were you given clear information about what the problem was and what you neeed to do to avoid further penalty and improve your performance?

And for goodness sake, make sure you take someone with you next time - not your best mate, but someone with some experience who will know their way around the disciplinary policy and have the sense to challenge your employer at the time of things are unclear or not right. Have you got a mentor?


As for references, it depends. Sound like your mate did something that could bring the company into disrepute (ie how on earth did they manage to employ someone that could do something so idiotic). But many calls for references are a standard form that askd for what your timekeeping is like as a test of relability. It hkn you'll only need to ask this question if you do face dismissal.

hth

Stand your ground and fight your case.

Don't sign anything that you don't want to sign.

And fight back if you must.

They thro mud and you can throw it back.

If you are knowledgable you can catch them in a trap if they don't follow there own HR procedure or employment law.

And don't say anything...let them talk and you listen and respond to what the say.

They cannot pick you out if everyone else was doing it...but a union official or solictors knowledge will show them that you are no easy touch and will go down fighting...they may back away if they can see you are a player.

Originally Posted by CoolGirl

First things first - don't argue on points of principle (eg "they'rea ll donig it"), but argue on points of fact. The best way to do this is to make sure they have done things properly:

• When did they change the IT policy? How did they publicise the change?
• Do you know what the company disciplinary policy is? Have they stuck to it? WEre you offered the opportunity to take someone with you to your last meeting? Did they give you adequate notice of the meeting? how will they handle your dispute of their minute-taking? do they have a grievance procedure?
• Did they write to you saying that you'd been given a warning? Was it formal or informal? What was the expiry date of the warning? Were you given clear information about what the problem was and what you neeed to do to avoid further penalty and improve your performance?

And for goodness sake, make sure you take someone with you next time - not your best mate, but someone with some experience who will know their way around the disciplinary policy and have the sense to challenge your employer at the time of things are unclear or not right. Have you got a mentor?


As for references, it depends. Sound like your mate did something that could bring the company into disrepute (ie how on earth did they manage to employ someone that could do something so idiotic). But many calls for references are a standard form that askd for what your timekeeping is like as a test of relability. It hkn you'll only need to ask this question if you do face dismissal.

hth

the policy has always remained the same, though never enforced, such as the exaples i have given. i have the comapny discilinery here in front of me, the orginal meeting as a surprise to me, the hearing i have the chance to bring someone into the meeting, suspened thursday 4pm, meeting monday 4pm, adeque time? unsure, i havent had the chance to ask the person i want to come into the meeting anything yet as not working sat, or sunday

Did they write to you saying that you'd been given a warning? Was it formal or informal? What was the expiry date of the warning? Were you given clear information about what the problem was and what you neeed to do to avoid further penalty and improve your performance?

no, i dont think ive had any previos on record warnings (tbc) i don have a copy of my personal file.