when is a Harley...

[Seeker]

... not a Harley?

I've been reading a couple of road tests of the new Harley Davidson Pan America and, by all accounts, it's a good bike in the adventure segment. The testers have been saying that Harley have knocked it out the park...

I started thinking about this and wondered what makes a Harley a "Harley"?

It needs an aircooled 45° pushrod V twin (to make it sound like "potato..potato" - a sound they tried to patent in the 90s), it needs to vibrate, be low revving. Belt drive, switch gear with charisma (left turn signal on left bar, right turn signal on right bar). It is usually heavy and has a clunky gearbox.

The Pan America has a 60° water cooled V twin, DOHC, variable valve timing, 9500 rpm red line, balance shafts. Chain drive, "normal" switch gear (ie like most bikes). Only weighs 534 lbs (slightly lighter than BMW R1250GS). Light action clutch and slick gearbox.

To summarise, Harley have thrown away everything that made them famous (infamous?) and adopted what the rest of the world have been doing for years and, in the process, made a good bike. Welcome to the 21st century Harley.

https://www.rideapart.com/reviews/50...merica-review/

[DJ123]

the separate indicators were on BMW bikes up until about 2012, when they moved to the more traditional switch gear.

HD have probably seen they're missing a big market of people and need to be more in line with mainstream offerings to catch more customers. It doesn't mean all bikes have to go this way, but they can use this as the 'money maker' to keep the brand going.

[shiftin_gear98]

Wow, that's God Damn Fugly.

For crimes against eyeballs they should all be taken into the desert and buried in an unmarked mass grave.
RIP Harley if that's what you have going for you.

[Adam Ef]

Originally Posted by DJ123

HD have probably seen they're missing a big market of people and need to be more in line with mainstream offerings to catch more customers. It doesn't mean all bikes have to go this way, but they can use this as the 'money maker' to keep the brand going.

I'd say it'll probably achieve alienating the last of their current customer base and miss the mark that would attract anyone new. Can't say I like it tbh and there's a lot of other choices about.

[redtrummy]

If you want a wasted life get a Harley - all ways have something to do- cleaning!
Not for me, non of them.
Remember many years ago talking to a guy on a campsite who was touring Northern England, he said that 50 - 55 was the max speed cruising, above that the vibration was too severe. What sort of bike is that ? (considering the size of the things ? )

All to their own I guess

[ethariel]

Well from my end it certainly had induced a lot of 'Talk' in the HD community, lots of derisive comments (far worse than anyone on here will ever make) but a good few of those people have gone rather silent after a test ride.

I'll agree it's not a 'Standard Harley' but then again a Tiger 1200 and a Rocket is not a 'standard triumph' either whichever way you look at it.

Sure if the Pan America hit the market 5 or 6 years ago it would have been better for HD but to be honest it's a massive leap for any company to move away from it's mainstream product not once but twice (the Livewire being the first departure from it's norm).

Will it sell? Yes
Will it sell to Non Harley owners - Well that's the big question

Price well it's (if you convert $ to £) looking to come in at £12,500 ish, that's what, 2.5 to 3k less than a BMW 1250RT and pretty much in line with the basic Tiger 1200.

It's got about 2x the BHP of any other fossil fuel powered HD in production (unmodded) and has more gizmos and toys loaded than you would ever have thought HD knew about, much less would have thought to add on to a bike.

Yes HD needs to at least try to break into different markets as they are missing out on about 70% of the potential sales targets worldwide by sticking with the standard push rod V twin.

Will I be test riding one? - Hell yes, will I be buying one? Hell No, regardless of the test ride experience (I'm very happy with the one I have now!)

[Seeker]

Harley do have a bit of stigma to overcome from the non-Harley rider but this bike is about as far from a traditional Harley as you can get. I'd consider it if I was in the market for such a big bike which would be the first Harley I've ever said that about. I can see why old school Harley fans will hate it but we all have our preconceptions and biases, I guess.

[Dave20046]

I'm not big on the adventure bikes but to me, that looks preferable to some of the other warships.
I'd be very concerned about the reliability and finish quality if taking it off road.

Originally Posted by redtrummy

If you want a wasted life get a Harley - all ways have something to do- cleaning!
Not for me, non of them.
Remember many years ago talking to a guy on a campsite who was touring Northern England, he said that 50 - 55 was the max speed cruising, above that the vibration was too severe. What sort of bike is that ? (considering the size of the things ? )

All to their own I guess

That's someone who is scared to ride it and probably part of the cleaning crew who just bought the bike for the badge. I've done 120mph+ on the ones* I've ridden, vibration's not the problem it's just normal naked bike wind buffet that gets ya, and I've been on faired bikes for the past 10 years.

* except one I rode that was all low and cushiony soft with big stupid hanger bars that I shat myself doing over 45mph on. I would have put it in the unrideable cruiser camp if I hadn't swapped back and seen my mate scraping the pegs and outstripping powerrangers (and me) through the twisties .

They do go round corners, they just blow up when you ask them to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9-61tFkBRM

[SV650rules]

Originally Posted by redtrummy

Remember many years ago talking to a guy on a campsite who was touring Northern England, he said that 50 - 55 was the max speed cruising, above that the vibration was too severe. What sort of bike is that ? (considering the size of the things ? )

A typical Milwaukee Tractor Factory product... HD don't sell bikes, they sell an aspiration / lifestyle to gullible people who saw Easy Rider or Captain America and believed it. Any bike where the front wheel moves 2 inches back and forward on tickover is an engineering joke.

[Adam Ef]

Not good publicity…
https://www.instagram.com/p/CQnrRfsg...dium=copy_link