And road pricing takes another step forward...

[the_lone_wolf]

Of course if I were cynical I would comment on it being such a coincidence that it goes before commons on the day the Likvinenko case charges are to be announced...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6678915.stm

Nah, they set fire to the Cutty Sark on purpose to hide the bad news Just that the scrotes they hired for the job got the wrong day

It's a really odd one. For starters any road pricing scheme aimed to get people off the roads either assumes that most people are making frivilous journeys or the idea is to price the poor off the roads. Now for the frivilous journeys - some of that is true, I'll sometimes take the car down to the shops for milk rather than walk/cycle - except that's not where the congestion is, congestion is the rush hour from (eg.) Prestbury (home) to Witney (work) - that's not a frivilous journey and there is no public transport that does that route - and that's the same for just about every other commuter out there.

And pricing the poor off the roads is just wrong for any government, and doubly strange for a labour government.

The really spooky bit, and I suspect the real drive for this (ie. it's nothing to do with congestion) is to get satellite tracking devices forcibly installed in every vehichle, with every trip you make recorded for all time. Of course, if you've got nothing to hide...

Kill speeding in one go...

[tigersaw]

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

The really spooky bit, and I suspect the real drive for this (ie. it's nothing to do with congestion) is to get satellite tracking devices forcibly installed in every vehichle, with every trip you make recorded for all time. Of course, if you've got nothing to hide...

Um, we got that now, most of us voluntarily carry a tracking device around with us.

They've stated that speeding won't be targeted - http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/road...faq#bookmark8b - actually that's not quite right, they've used "politician speak", ie. "it's not the aim of the scheme", leaves them a gap as big as a barn door to sneak it in later. It'll take one tragic schoolkid death, the "won't somebody think of the children?" brigade will pipe up, and they'll amend the scheme overnight to target speeders too.

Curious one, I suspect that speeding is actually practiced by the majority of road users on a daily basis - dunno if they're brave enough to criminalise the majority of the population just yet.

Two million people signed the petition against it, we were told we were wrong and they knew best. Two million people protested in London against the Iraq invasion, we were told we were wrong and they knew best. About a quarter of a million people demonstrated against the poll tax and it got repealed. Democracy is a strange thing

Originally Posted by tigersaw

Um, we got that now, most of us voluntarily carry a tracking device around with us.

But your movements are not recorded - it's purely a passive device (if we're talking about sat-nav), if talking about mobile phones, you can always not take it, or turn it off - with sat track in each vehichle, it'll always be on whether you want it or not, and it's an active system, ie. it's purpose is not to show you where you are, but to record where you've been and where you're going.

[northwind]

Yep, great. But this is nothing to do with track and tax, and everything to do with localised charging, a la London congestion charge- though almost certainly on a smaller scale of course, the scheme suggested for Edinburgh covers only a few square miles or city centre. Fact is, city centres are grinding to a halt and it's just getting worse. What's your solution? Smaller cars? More roads? Local charging doesn't need tracking devices, as's been shown, and it can be used to fund road improvements and public transport (though that remains to be seen of course).

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

if talking about mobile phones, you can always not take it, or turn it off - with sat track in each vehichle, it'll always be on whether you want it or not, and it's an active system, ie. it's purpose is not to show you where you are, but to record where you've been and where you're going.

Off topic: Be advised. You can still track a mobile phone even if it's "switched off" because they have power to keep the clock ticking. The only way to prevent GSM tracking is to literally remove the battery AND sim card from the phone itself. Or change the IMEI.

Back to the topic...I've seen systems that use passive tracking that could be used for road pricing too. All it has to do is to record where you've been, then you hand over the data to the authorities for processing. They could even then bill you accordingly for road tax, and lump that in with annual tax returns that the self employed have to do. IE: Send us your sat nav tracking data by April the 1st, or risk a big fine.

This could also be enforced by a system that a US friend of mine has in his car. He got the car on a HP agreement (finance), and his finance states that a black box has to remain fitted in the car until the agreement is settled in full. This black box is like an old electric meter. It's basically a PAYG immobiliser. Take it to a nominated garage, pay the bill, they put "credit" in your car. You run out of credit, you loose all use of the engine & have to pay someone to come out & pick the car up.

Of course, the UK are looking at other solutions, and that I'm aware of, nothing is set in stone as to "if it goes ahead, this is what we're doing." I can't wait for that to happen though.

Road pricing is inevitable, sadly.

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

Curious one, I suspect that speeding is actually practiced by the majority of road users on a daily basis - dunno if they're brave enough to criminalise the majority of the population just yet.

Speed limits are apparently set to the 85th percentile. This means that 15% of all motorists are assumed to be going over the speed limit before it's imposed/amended.

Of course, there's no real definitive information as to how many still continue speeding after the limit is imposed, yet get away with it.

Reading Borough Council (or whatever they are called) are one of the local councils that have applied for it. It just wont work in Reading. Wherever they do it, they will push road users onto other routes that are clogged up already. Public transport in Reading at rush hour is full up already. Public transport also goes from the edges of Reading to the centre and not "diagonally" across the town so if like I did, you work in south reading and live in west reading, you are buggered cos you need to take 2 buses.