Oil Changes

I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet but

Filter some of this through your cerebrums!
I know it was tested on papaps but it makes very interesting reading, plus I have read stuff along these lines before, basically that you do not have to change your oil as regularly as the manu' says. They want your engine to wear out so you buy another bike and the oil company want you to change it every 3k so they sell you lots of expensive oil right?
Its always baffled me why bikes are pensioned off at 40k yet cars go on to 150k+ regularly. Its because the bikes rev higher we are told. Oh yeah?

I told a cafe owner friend of mine the other day that he should not be buying fresh oil for his fryer every week, just buy a high quality filter and his oil would last for ages cos heat doesn't break it down or degrade it. He looked quite shocked as my highly respected technical friend who was in earshot nodded his agreement. Knowledge is a very useful thing.
Complicated stuff oil!
Any road up have a read!
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

[Sid Squid]

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

...basically that you do not have to change your oil as regularly as the manu' says. They want your engine to wear out so you buy another bike and the oil company want you to change it every 3k so they sell you lots of expensive oil right?

I love this conspiracy stuff - I can read it for hours.

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

...Its always baffled me why bikes are pensioned off at 40k yet cars go on to 150k+ regularly.

ANY modern bike of say, 250 and above will give a damn sight more than 40,000 if you just change the oil regularly. My ZX6 is now on 90,000, one SV I know well has more than 100,000. A few years back I sold a Suzuki 550 at about 85,000 running lovely, the engine was still going well at approx 125,000 when sadly the bike got crunched.

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

...Its because the bikes rev higher we are told. Oh yeah?

That's part of the reason yes. It would be more accurate to say bike engines have higher specific outputs, not to mention that they share their engine oil with the clutch, cars don't, and the gearbox too, cars don't do that either.

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

Knowledge is a very useful thing.

True.

Originally Posted by RhythmJunkie

Complicated stuff oil!

Truer still!

Hi Sid, thing is we all know people who never change their oil, just top it up and run their vehic's into the ground. Strangely they don't blow up after 6 months as the manufacturers would have us believe. I would say from 30 years of observing different driving/riding techniques that the engines which are thrashed mercilessly are the ones which falter and don't last but even they have exceptions. You also have to trust the garage to change the oil when the bike is serviced too.

For instance, my son just had his bike serviced by a shop which offers a lifetime warranty on used bikes. The oil was not changed and neither were the spark plugs. He has pre-paid for these services as part of his finance deal so he gets 2 years services at half price for pre-paying. Now if oil changes were so important then why would this company not change his oil when they are running the risk of having an expensive engine repair if it fails due to them neglecting the bikes servicing requirements? They know that the engine will be fine and they just bank the cash and hope that no-one notices. Anyone says anything they just do a basic service to shut you up and everything is back to normal.
Yes mate conspiracy. Two or more people conspiring together to commit a wrongdoing. I think that explains this companies policy perfectly don't you?

As for leaving the oil and changing the filter which, over years, would save an awful lot of money, and earths resources, well the people who are tight fisted and don't change their oil seem to have hit on a money saving measure which I think we could all learn from. The only people who seem to want us to change our oil at the absolutely ridiculous 3000 mile intervals are the oil companies $$$$ and the servicing garages $$$$ are you seeing a pattern emerging here Sid??
I knew a couple of motorcycle mechanics 15 years ago who didn't change their oil when the book says, "why" I asked them, "because it doesn't cause any extra wear", they said! That was back in my superdream days and I didn't believe them cos I thought how can a grease monkey know more than a company scientist? Now I realise I was wrong to mistrust the mechanics because they are the ones who know, the ones stripping the engines and seeing the wear rates. They benefit $$ from not changing the oil, the scientist benefits $$ from making you change the oil. Very strong pattern I'm seeing here dude! Ok I'll shut me gob now but give it some thought Sid.
Everyones out to rip you off mate including the oil companies.
See the truth and don't let them get away with it!

Peace

Motorcyle oil has to be changed more often for several reasons, the first is that bike engines are in a higher state of tune than most car engines apart from subarus, evos etc some of which also need an oil change every 4,000mls or so. Bike oil gets contaminated via clutch matter and also gets broken down quicker due to the abuse it gets from the shearing action of the gearbox. For what it cost to keep a bikes engine purring its a small price to pay. If you had a super model girlfriend would you feed her chips? no you would treat her and feed her well.
If you dont agree with oil changed dont get them done and see how long your bike and car lasts. Im a mechanic and see the state of peoples cars when they neglect oil changed and let me tell you even after two years of neglected oil changed irreversable damage has usualy been done.
People make up your own mind but car and bike makers state these recommendations for the good of the machine neglect at your peril.
Also who wants to buy a bike or a car with no service history?? i know i wouldnt touch it with a barge pole.

rant over as you will have guessed this is something i feel strongly about.

Impreza engines make 150bhp/litre and a little more sometimes
These highly tuned engines don't often last longer than 20k without needing a rebuild. So really- motorcycle engines do well! Even from a visible point of view the oil discolours very quickly, so there is a change happening. I do think we nanny our bikes a bit much- but for 10minutes and £10 of oil- i know what I'll do

There are so many variables to consider for oil life.

Oil comes in many different grades and as mineral, semi-synthetic and synthetic. Synthetic oils hold their properties the longest and cost more generally.

Motorcycles are run in many different environments, year round, extreme heat, exteme cold, summer use, dry weather only, racing, commuting and fun riding. Manufacturer's have to find a compromise that covers all these eventualities. So whist its possible that for example 3000 miles service intervals maybe unecessary in some conditions it has been assessed that if everyone adheres to these guidlines the engine should have maximum longevity.

Hope that helps

btw I'm no oil expert

Originally Posted by Sid Squid

I love this conspiracy stuff - I can read it for hours.

ANY modern bike of say, 250 and above will give a damn sight more than 40,000 if you just change the oil regularly. My ZX6 is now on 90,000, one SV I know well has more than 100,000. A few years back I sold a Suzuki 550 at about 85,000 running lovely, the engine was still going well at approx 125,000 when sadly the bike got crunched.

That's part of the reason yes. It would be more accurate to say bike engines have higher specific outputs, not to mention that they share their engine oil with the clutch, cars don't, and the gearbox too, cars don't do that either.


True.

Truer still!

Not quite minis and metros share there engine oil with the gearbox

Ducati's have a dry clutch too I think, as do some old brit bikes like the Wilkinson circa 1912....yes I know I'm being really picky but I've had a stinking migraine for 3 days so I'm letting out some tension!

I think that the thought I had in my head when I originally posted was the fact that the majority of owners would benefit from much less frequent services than recommended simply because the greedy people see money and stretch the truth to make more money do you see? I know some people live near the coast and ride through winter and, and, and...but services are damned expensive and I hate to see people ripped off!

If you can get your quality oil discounted and you can change it yourself then why not change it every 2000 miles, I'm sure your engine wouldn't be worse off for it but taking the bike to a garage every 2 months and paying £140 a time is going to cost a fortune so I look for a viable alternative....thats all....clearer??

I've owned mine for 1 month now and done just over 2000 miles already! First big service 4k which gives me a nice fat 2k for the trip to Scotland on the 15th of September......only problem is going to be keeping off it until then! :

[jambo]

I think the point is that service schedules are set up at well thought out, safe intervals by the people who made the bike. Many engines get easier lives (few cold starts etc) and could, potentially stretch out a little longer. Suzuki do not get a "cut" of the servicing costs (AFAIK) and they set the service schedule, rather than the garage. No garage should charge £140 to change the oil. They should be lubricating and adjusting cables, levers, checking brakes and looking for any signs of trouble. If you are able to do all of the above yourself then then it just takes a little time. I myself will continue to change the oil at recomended intervals.

[Sid Squid]

Originally Posted by Hazzar

Not quite minis and metros share there engine oil with the gearbox

Your list is incomplete - there are plenty you left off. Lots of the BLMC transverse FWD with the 'A' series did, and guess what? They needed their oil changed more often too.