'Urban' speed limits from 30>20MPH?

After a bit of indecision whether this was a bikes- talk and issues, or idle banter topic, i decided to post it here. Mods feel free to relocate if i have smegged up.

I caught a brief clip on the news this afternoon of a campaign to change 'urban'(hell that coud be anywhere) speed limits from 30MPH to 20MPH. As i understand it a child had been hit by a car.

Whilst thats very sad...surely its a knee-jerk reaction and deserves no consideration?

Surely crashes at those speeds are caused by a lack of attention/focus on the drivers part, or indeed the kids running indescriminately across the road?

N.B. I agree that a few places warrant a 20MPH....but not many.

[timwilky]

There is a campaign to change all roads near where I live to 20mph. when asked to sign a petition I told them they would be better off teaching kids not to run into the road and how to cross safely etc. and got a mouthful of abuse from the do good mumsies for my advice on how to prevent children from being injured.

Lots of places warrant a 20 limit, just so the prats that usually do 40 will actually do closer to 30. I'm talking about near schools, past parks, along roads with cars parked on each side etc etc.
Blanket speed limits show little genuine thought about road safety and tend to just encourage a sense of disrespect for them amongst road users. 30 limits on roads which should be 40 or even 60 just have a negative effect on the way road users look at the validity of all speed limits.

[Biker Biggles]

That's right,and even those roads that do warrant 20 limits don't warrant them at all times.While I fully support a 20 limit past a school at say 0800 on Monday during term time,the same road could well warrant a 40 limit on a Sunday.
And teaching road sense like it was drummed into us as kids is absolutely right.

I think a 20mph limit outside the places already listed is a good idea, perhaps variable times depending upon the place. Teaching kids to cross the road is the responsiblity of parents, and should not be palmed on to teachers, if it were there would be too much H&S involved, it would not feel dangerous and the lesson will not sink in. Getting it to sink in is not easy. We taught our kids, and though it was ingrained, if you asked them they would give you the full monty. Still one of ours ran in front of a car (no impact), she was concentrating on her friend. This resulted in a good old fashioned smack there and then, lesson learned. Reduction to 20 won't reduce the number of colisions with kids that run out into the road, but it will make the injuries less severe.

Have to agree with limits outside schools, playground and parks. Hell I'd even welcome cameras at theses points.

But as Time said, somebody ought to teach the blighter's to cross the road safely. When was the last time you saw an advert on the TV about crossing the road ?? No, it's always the motorist as they can be pursued.

What about the stupid b**ch who crossed without looking and took me off of my SV ? Exactly, I had to pay for the repairs.....

Pedestrians have responsibilities too !

My kids had the teaching session in school, with "Mrs Tufty". Mainly theory and the only practical was in the school yard on the painted road. No real danger and I don't think little kids can relate the differing situations.

It's like that ad I keep seeing in the cinema. They're campaigning for safer roads in London and the advert shows a child walk out into the road without looking and get hit by a car. Every time I see it, it makes me think "So we need to teach kids to cross the road, that poor car driver had no chance!"

Surely if there is to be some kind of review into how appropriate speed limita re surely they need to be looking further than just ubran areas and start looking at the possibility of increasing speed limits on motorways and other roads?

My pov:

Any 20 limit outside a school is good, provided it is temporary and controlled by the teachers within the school and only used when kids are arriving or leaving. Busting someone for doing 30 through there on a sunday afternoon just isn't on. 20 limits outside parks/playgrounds are a bit less clear cut. I can think of at least 3 sections of road bordering parks in my town where visibility is superb and provided there are no cars there (which there rarely are) you could safely do 40 along them, so the existing 30 limit is fine. Naturally, this isn't the case with all parks and I can think of some where a 20 limit might be handy, for a short section of road (IE not extending it 1 mile either side of the playground). So long as the people applying them had a bit of nous, it'd be fine.

An awful lot of existing 30 limits are inappropriate (many should be 40, some should even be NSL) and widely ignored by motorists, so dropping them all to 20 would just further the contempt/disregard people have for them.

Educating children with regard to road safety is vastly cheaper, more just and more effective than trying to get drivers to shoulder responsibility for a kid running into their path (as someone who has hit a kid who ran out, I feel very strongly on this issue).