Alternative vote

Well, the polling cards came through at the weekend and I'll confess that for the first vote for a long time (and my first ever referendum) I'm not rabidly argumentative or particularly well researched.

With the exception of Ed's fetching pink "no to AV" logo, I haven't really seen much campaigning in either direction, on the forum or the real world.

I'm generally leaning toward the yes to AV side for a few reasons:

(a) it would allow for the clashing of minds with Ed, an intellectual battle of such titanic proportions that future generations will compare it to a pair of three-toed Sloths mildly displaying a minor disagreement over the evening's planned television viewing.

(b) it may go some small way to better representing at a national level a share of the vote. We all know that of some constituencies a blue (or red) ribbon tied to a pig would secure a win. In Tewkesbury it did. A man who noted during the expenses scandal that he wouldn't countenance any system which made him poorer. We're all in this together remember. Well, apart from Laurence - you proles are all in it together.

(c) whilst a dirty little compromise, it's a step on the way to what I believe is a better system and a no vote would see us with first past the post for at the very least the next thirty years before we see another referendum. The world is full of dirty little compromises - first round voting for leader of the Conservative party saw Mr Cameron come second. Labour leadership election saw the same thing with Mr E. Milliband coming in second in the first three rounds.


So, like I say, I am genuinely open to being convinced on this one, I'm happy to play devil's advocate to Ed's argument (mainly because I'm an argumentative little ****) but I am looking to be convinced one way or another as I figure it's too important, and too rare, an opportunity to go one way or another without knowledge and commitment.

As a side note - slightly suprised by the colour choice of the "no to AV" folks. They certainly seem to be the more organised side at the moment and I'm guessing that means there are spin doctors at work. I know a little of the art (with a capital "F") of spin doctoring, and my hunch would be that the core of support for a No vote would come from conservative (with a small "C") electorate - a demographic more associated with a deep blue, like the old passport, when a British passport was British, and printed on stiff card sufficient for swatting Johnny Foreigner out of the way.

[timwilky]

AV will mean minority parties with no right to govern, no mandate from the majority get their grubby hands on power, Oh nothing new there then.

If you want government by consensus and nothing to correct the ills of the past vote AV. If you want government to make a difference vote for retaining the first past the post.

And make it a legal requirement for all to vote. I am fed up of hearing I did not elect the tories. So who did you vote for? I didn't.

[Bri w]

Its not the current voting system that is at fault. Its the apathy of the vast majority of the electorate, and in truth the ridiculous attitude of my grandfather voted x, my dad voted x and I'm gonna vote x.

The apathy of the electorate has allowed party politics to evolve in the way it has, and as for the I'll vote Lab/Con/whatever coz I always have.....aaaarrrgghhhh!

No, I'm not joining in on another debate that'll just raise the BP - oh, and as for petrol prices...sorry, couldn't avoid the play on words.

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Just in case folks can't remember it

Originally Posted by timwilky

If you want government by consensus and nothing to correct the ills of the past vote AV. If you want government to make a difference vote for retaining the first past the post..

How about a government that will actually do what it says and not slag off the other party?? I'll vote for that system

I don't really get AV but not sure it affects us anyway!

[flymo]

Originally Posted by timwilky

....no mandate from the majority

isnt that the problem though with our current system, the winning party often doesnt have a majority, they have the largest minority.

Indeed - 2005 Labour got just 35% of the vote and 55% of the seats wheras the Tories were not far off the share of the vote at 32% but had just 30% of the seats. Lib Dems in 2005 got 22% of the vote and 10% of seats.

Important to note that not many people are saying AV will be a proportional system but that it will be more proportional than what we currently have.

AV = oh dear. Any wonder that only 3 countries in the world use it? Fiji, Papua New Guinea - and, surprisingly - Australia.

Edited, now with new and improved (and rather more importantly checked) facts!

Not sure that's a compelling argument Ed, I could likewise ask what the following countries have in common:
Azerbaijan, Ethiopia, Iran, Lebanon, Nigeria, Pakistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe.
(First past the post elections)

But both mine and yours are bad arguments really, I could point to countries where first past the post looks horrible, you could point to countries where AV looks horrible - what I want to know is what are the pros and cons of it here, in the UK.

And if first past the post is so good - why is David Cameron leader of the Conservative Party? Because he came in second in the first round of votes.

The problem Matt is that we can only project how it would work here by experience from elsewhere. I'm a bit inundated ATM but later on I'll set out my detailed thoughts on this crock of shyte.