AR announcement

[rictus01]

AR changes

I’ve been thinking about the AR and the problems it seems to have generated over the last couple of years. Whilst I would always prefer a democratic solution to choosing the date, venue and organiser, it would seem that this just causes too many arguments and conflicts. So I think it’s time for a change.

Going forward from AR13 onwards, the plan is that I’ll request tenders from anyone interested in organising the AR event. The organiser can choose their own date, venue, rideout route, camp site etc. So totally flexible. I’ll collate the tenders and discuss them with the Mods and we’ll come to a decision based on what looks the most appealing, whether we’ve been to that part of the UK recently and if we think that the organiser has considered the sheer workload involved . So it’s not unlike the bidding system that the Olympics use.

I would request tenders via a PM in November, this will give the Mods and I a month to consider the successful candidate. I’ll then announce the winner in the new year, so that the organiser and attendees can start to put the plans into motion. Meantime if your thinking of organising AR13, you have a few months to plan your tender.

in case anyone missed it and as you can't comment on the announcement

I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop on this subject, now it has, whilst I can see why the mod group would want to control the AR and on the face of it, it may seem a plausible solution to passed problems; well at least the ones the mod team perceive, it also opens it up to any restrictions that maybe applied "behind the scenes" (as was done the last time), if it's not visible then those interested in it taking place won't know what "bids" are being considered or if any are at all, also will the criteria be applied on the buddy system, most bells & whistles or perhaps just the one requiring the least input ?, it becomes what is allowed, but then perhaps that's what the aim is

Not to mention the loss of the benefits of feedback via polls and suggestions for those looking to organise it, as most proposals evolve over time from the original idea and are far from what actually takes place, those organising are going to want to give themselves the best chance of succeeding so will need every I dotted and T crossed rather than being though to not have "considered the sheer workload involved", for example; most years the markers aren't finalised until very close to the actual event, but if someone were to submit a bid with ample markers listed 8 month prior, would that make their Bid more appealing, I seriously doubt the same markers listed would be those doing it on the day; even if you could actually get a commitment that far ahead of time anyway, so it becomes a case of whoever makes a bid either has to rely on friends or basically bluff it (to win the bid)and sort the detail as best they can afterward, having already promised to do what was in their bid ( because the mod group can't fairly "judge" a bid unless it is totally complete or appears to be, can they ?).

whilst I've enjoyed the 10 AR's I've been to, the 2 I've organised and the 5 I've helped out on, it's now possible an announcement could be made at some point that the AR won't be run (as has been suggested in the passed) as no interest has been expressed (as in no bids received) whether that be the case or not, or members believing "someone else" has submitted a bid, so not bothering and resulting in the same outcome, for this year I offered to organise it if no one did (as at that point no one had offered), this won't be possible in future as the members won't know until the new year what is going on at all , and to be frank if the mod group are taking control they should take the responsibility of making sure it happens but that's probably more wishful thinking than going to happen, also I do know we've had requests for a date before the new year as some have to book their leave early (for the next year).

I wondered how the AR would evolve or devolve, John's announcement basically keeps everyone in the dark about what is going on or whether additional help is needed to make sure it takes place, whilst I may still attend, I can't see me being able to offer a firm commitment on something that is either fictitious in it's detail at that stage, or realistic and without detail so unlikely to win, the easiest thing will be to not offer at all, I suspect a lot of "if I can", "not sure yet" "speak to me nearer the time" answers will be the order of the day.

personally I can't see many making the effort, and certainly the absence of proposal threads and those willing to offer help to prospective organisers on them is going to be a negative to anyone considering it, hence they probably won't.

I've said many times there can be only one AR, it's always been special to me and allowed me to meet friends I'd otherwise not see, the fait accompli approach has been tried before in 2008 and resulted in the whole thing being re-organised, I can unfortunately see something similar on the horizon, and other regional rideout without these restrictions on organisation; being more popular to both organise and attend.

Just my personal view and I hope I'm wrong, I never saw a problem with a bit of healthy debate on the subject, in fact I always thought it made the whole thing more for and of the members, rather than some sponsored type thing, but the announcement does away with all that, I can't help seeing this as a step back; not forwards.

Discuss...

Cheers Mark.

new complaints list
tapping up mods, bottle of wine for messy ,sexual favour for richie, new shiney enhalator for blue fish lol
someone is running there own AR via facebook
sorry AR is cancelled due to my goldfish dying
he/she only got it because they did complaint 1

different problems same outcome i foresee

[rictus01]

I acutual agree Dave, there will always be a contingent that have no thoughts of actually helping and enjoy the wooden spoon element, it won't change that at all, but as I said it will put off those that otherwise might have made suggestions or volunteered to organise or help.

IMO, after all the bitching (not healthy debate) before, I see this as a positive step.
Least this way the venue location will be varied and fair.

I can't see the organisation being any different once tender has been won, no previous AR was fully planned by Xmas surely?

[rictus01]

company line ?

no what this has done quite effectively is after years of trying to convince those who may have liked to try it that the basics were simple and all that was needed was expanded on a reginal suggestion or idea, starting with a concept and a very few things needed, that others would get on board with and help as it went along, so it was something they could do, now to not bother unless it's a full blown proposal otherwise they will be deemed to "not understand the workload" or basically get blown off, people won't put the work in with no idea what the criteria they have to reach is, no one will say anything, but you'll be liucky to get anyone willing to give time and work under those conditions, but I guess we'll see...

still I should be pleased, as we'll only see the actual AR details in the new year and as it'll have been all sorted by then, there will be no issues at all or it'll just not happening, I presume as it'll be "behind closed doors" so to speak won't know what was proposed or by who, so no offers of help could possibly be made by anyone but the mod team? As I said; without the input or as I put it healthy debate and you termed bitching, it won't be a members event anymore, might as well stick a pin in the middle of the map and have the same place each year, that's simple enough. but the AR as it was will have been lost IMO

[Bri w]

I honestly can't see what the problem is...

A venue, and its infrastructure, will surely be chosen based on what's worked before. The original tenderer will have asked those friends local to him/her to support him/her if he is successful.

Once announced, everyone gets to decide whether they go or not. All that's being changed is the mods chose the 'best' proposal rather than it being voted on by the org. In effect, the org-ans get to vote with their feet if they want to go...

If it is going to be taken over by mods and the chosen site not chosen by the members I'm sure there will be a members weekend that is chosen by the members. Moderation is just what it means, not dictatorship and as Bri says, members will choose by their feet!!

[dizzyblonde]

Many members over recent months have left or just don't bother with this forum.

The words ' dictatorship' from so many members in personal conversations from others, is a word so frequent its unbelievable.


Basically, if you ain't on the popular list, you won't know anyway. People can propose away, even those who have vast experience in this event, and if the mod team don't want to go there, then nobody else will have the opportunity either. Nobody will know anyway as its all cloak and veil.


Well I'm afraid I could have a proposal ready by November bells whistles and all be it Dales or Lincs, but somehow I think it would be purposely ignored.

I've had a heads up for an anniversary event which is a big one for a venue and another for the event for next year. That will be my priority, they appreciate the effort.

[rictus01]

Originally Posted by Bri w

I honestly can't see what the problem is...

A venue, and its infrastructure, will surely be chosen based on what's worked before. The original tenderer will have asked those friends local to him/her to support him/her if he is successful.

Once announced, everyone gets to decide whether they go or not. All that's being changed is the mods chose the 'best' proposal rather than it being voted on by the org. In effect, the org-ans get to vote with their feet if they want to go...

that's a simplistic viewpoint, but I'll run with it, generally the suggestions are loose to start with and the date & area are the major important points, the rest is fleshed out as it goes along, this has two main benefits, the first is people haven't got a whole lot of time and effort invested before they know whether it's viable, leading to more people wishing to make proposals, that now would presumably be seen as "not understanding the workload" so without having everything sorted in the proposal it would be seen as half baked, a lot more work would have to go into it to cover every detail some 8 months before hand. hence not as many people will volunteer (i'm no project manager or event organiser, and wouldn't want to be held to details I proposed 8 months earlier), the second is AR has always been involving the members, not excluding them, one of the things that make it different from any other regional ride out which normally results in very good attendance, we saw this year a marked decline in numbers and I've spoken to a lot that would have normally attended, a prime reason given was they felt it was imposed on them, much as the new year announced "winner" will be. a sanitized well run event attended by locals isn't my idea of an AR, any region can do that anytime they want, but you're ultimately right, people can and no doubt will vote with their feet, I just can't see the reasons to attend being anywhere near what they once were, perhaps I cling to a simpler time and am fortunate enough to have been to many good ones, I have no problem with change. but can't see any benefit to the members at all.

Cheers Mark.

Times change,what was applicable ten,twelve years ago when the forum was smaller and more intimate may not necessarily work now.I have been on here over ten years and term it as you wish,discussion or bitching,but we certainly have plenty of it.Attendance numbers have varied over the years but weather,personal situations, a basic preferences, all have an outcome on the result.Giving input and offers of help,as far as I can see depends on if your face fits and you haven't upset any of the organisers in the past
I have never been able to work out how the final venue is decided on, so my personal decision as whether to attend is usually down to weather,not so much location.Debate,poll,number of votes whatever it always seems that final decisions are behind closed doors and kept secretive like the routes. This is where totally disagree with the current system but it is not my site

Other groups or regions that organise their own rides is a more localised thing with the option for others to attend and not in contention with the AR.
Likewise organising a trip where each individual is responsible for his own welfare is different again,as an example a lot more miles and time off work thereby expensive so better kept to private communication rather than open forum eliminating the aggressive sides of debate which habitually occurs with the AR.

NO MATTER HOW IT IS DONE YOU CAN NEVER PLEASE EVERYBODY