Does anybody here have any legal experience? - SV650.org

28-09-06, 01:10 PM

I left my car with a garage to do some work on it and the hard top was stolen.
The garage acknowledged that it was stolen while on their premises but they are not liable because they have signs up to that effect.

My question is whether it is worth pursuing this privately. My own insurance company is refusing to take it further because of the presence of the signs so I would like to see if there are any legal precedents before I take it further out of my own pocket.

Ta in advance!

28-09-06, 01:33 PM

Pm Ed, he's a solicitor and can advise you best.

28-09-06, 02:48 PM

thanks Lyn,

sending him a PM now.

28-09-06, 02:55 PM

My only experience of legal matters is being on the wrong side of them.

SoulKiss · 28-09-06, 02:59 PM

Was the hard-top ON the car when you handed over the keys - ie it was part of the car, even if removeable, like a wheel?

I am sure if someone had just jacked the car up and stolen your wheels/tyres they would accept liability for that.

No real difference as far as I can see.

David

Shellywoozle · 28-09-06, 03:53 PM

Hi Chicken,

You can report this to the Police as theft, as that is what it boils down to. The Police will then investigate the whole lot, i.e who had access to garage, if anyone saw anything, CCTV etc etc.

It's worth doing as the garage are obviously s**t. I would go into the garage and tell them that's what you are doing and also I would say that you are putting a piece in the local paper just incase anyone knows anything, they may think twice and pay towards costs otherwise it looks bad on them .... I wouldn't class that as blackmail

28-09-06, 04:01 PM

Emm. So, the garage reckon they are not liable, cause they have that sign up?

See. That sounds like ******** to me. They either are liable or they are not. Them saying something does not change this.

Ie, if I have a sign on my jacket, saying, "I AM HAMMERED DRUNK, STAY AWAY", and I hit some one, I am still liable. My saying I am doesnt change anything. Conversely, saying you were not aware of the speed limit, is no defense for breaking it.

If the bike is in their care, I would imagine they are responsible for it. Regardless of what stupid signs they post.

Obviously though... I am not a lawyer, and really know nothing. But, I have always had a bee in my bonnet about those signs.

Enlighten us Ed. (Or other clever people.)

28-09-06, 07:20 PM

i studied law years ago and cant remember much of it.

basically, if im corerct, those signs are known as excursion laws.
basically, they are put up to avoid law suits, but they are not legally binding.

one case precidented (cant remember the case name) that even though a woman put her coat into a cloak room at a club, they had signs up saying that the club cannot be held responsible for items, and they lost (or stole) her purse, claimed that they cannot accept reponsibility,

in the end the club lost.

i could be wrong here, ed is probably your best bet.

Stingo · 28-09-06, 08:26 PM

I know nothing (I learn Eeengleesh from a book)...but it's a bit weird isn't it? A car roof goes missing from a garage? Did any tools/equipment go? Vehicles maybe? Cash? Oil? Dirty overalls? Tin of grease? No? Just a removable roof from a specific car....hmmmm

28-09-06, 10:42 PM

You have PM.

For everyone else's benefit, there are loads of rules on exclusion clauses, like are they part of the contract in the first place. Did you see the signs, did the garage draw them to your attention, have yu dealt with tthese people on these terms before, and so on. And even if they are part of the contract, is the purported exclusion of liability reasonable - Chicken dealt as a consumer, it makes a world of difference as the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Reguations 1999 will apply. These Brussels-inspired laws generally frown on this sort of scam.

It's disgusting that a garage will take your money but seeks to worm out of liability on the basis of a few signs. I don't think a judge would be too impressed. Anyway if the car is there at the customer's risk, why bother with security in the first place, why not leave the motor out in the open with the keys in the ignition? Doesn't the fact of the security suggest that they do accept a responsibility?

I thought that the world had moved on from this sort of conduct, plainly I'm wrong.

Stinks.

28-09-06, 01:10 PM	#1
Chicken Guest Posts: n/a	Does anybody here have any legal experience? I left my car with a garage to do some work on it and the hard top was stolen. The garage acknowledged that it was stolen while on their premises but they are not liable because they have signs up to that effect. My question is whether it is worth pursuing this privately. My own insurance company is refusing to take it further because of the presence of the signs so I would like to see if there are any legal precedents before I take it further out of my own pocket. Ta in advance!

28-09-06, 02:59 PM	#5
SoulKiss Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sunny Croydonia Posts: 6,124	Was the hard-top ON the car when you handed over the keys - ie it was part of the car, even if removeable, like a wheel? I am sure if someone had just jacked the car up and stolen your wheels/tyres they would accept liability for that. No real difference as far as I can see. David __________________ Sent from my PC NOT using any Tapatalk type rubbish!! █╬╬╬╬(•)i¯i▀▀▀▀▀█Ξ███████████████████████████████)

28-09-06, 03:53 PM	#6
Shellywoozle Member Mega Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Woozle Land Posts: 2,234	Hi Chicken, You can report this to the Police as theft, as that is what it boils down to. The Police will then investigate the whole lot, i.e who had access to garage, if anyone saw anything, CCTV etc etc. It's worth doing as the garage are obviously st. I would go into the garage and tell them that's what you are doing and also I would say that you are putting a piece in the local paper just incase anyone knows anything, they may think twice and pay towards costs otherwise it looks bad on them .... I wouldn't class that as blackmail __________________ <((((((((((((((((◕‿◕) The Woozle woz ere (◕‿◕)))))))))))))))> Black K4 Pointy named Zuky, OEM belly pan, OEM hugger,** OEM cowl, R&G bungs, akrapovic system, tinted double bubble Fabbri screen, tail tidy, scottoiler, alarm, datatagged, lowered seat for short ass rider named Shell. RIP PC David Rathband sad day 29/2/2012

28-09-06, 08:26 PM	#9
Stingo Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Plymouth, Devon - mostly. Posts: 527	I know nothing (I learn Eeengleesh from a book)...but it's a bit weird isn't it? A car roof goes missing from a garage? Did any tools/equipment go? Vehicles maybe? Cash? Oil? Dirty overalls? Tin of grease? No? Just a removable roof from a specific car....hmmmm __________________ Twitter: @poseidon_ashore

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28-09-06, 01:33 PM	#2
lynw Guest Posts: n/a	Pm Ed, he's a solicitor and can advise you best.

28-09-06, 02:48 PM	#3
Chicken Guest Posts: n/a	thanks Lyn, sending him a PM now.

28-09-06, 02:55 PM	#4
Peter Henry Guest Posts: n/a	My only experience of legal matters is being on the wrong side of them.

28-09-06, 04:01 PM	#7
philipMac Guest Posts: n/a	Emm. So, the garage reckon they are not liable, cause they have that sign up? See. That sounds like ******** to me. They either are liable or they are not. Them saying something does not change this. Ie, if I have a sign on my jacket, saying, "I AM HAMMERED DRUNK, STAY AWAY", and I hit some one, I am still liable. My saying I am doesnt change anything. Conversely, saying you were not aware of the speed limit, is no defense for breaking it. If the bike is in their care, I would imagine they are responsible for it. Regardless of what stupid signs they post. Obviously though... I am not a lawyer, and really know nothing. But, I have always had a bee in my bonnet about those signs. Enlighten us Ed. (Or other clever people.)

28-09-06, 07:20 PM	#8
Warren Guest Posts: n/a	i studied law years ago and cant remember much of it. basically, if im corerct, those signs are known as excursion laws. basically, they are put up to avoid law suits, but they are not legally binding. one case precidented (cant remember the case name) that even though a woman put her coat into a cloak room at a club, they had signs up saying that the club cannot be held responsible for items, and they lost (or stole) her purse, claimed that they cannot accept reponsibility, in the end the club lost. i could be wrong here, ed is probably your best bet.

28-09-06, 10:42 PM	#10
Ed Guest Posts: n/a	You have PM. For everyone else's benefit, there are loads of rules on exclusion clauses, like are they part of the contract in the first place. Did you see the signs, did the garage draw them to your attention, have yu dealt with tthese people on these terms before, and so on. And even if they are part of the contract, is the purported exclusion of liability reasonable - Chicken dealt as a consumer, it makes a world of difference as the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Reguations 1999 will apply. These Brussels-inspired laws generally frown on this sort of scam. It's disgusting that a garage will take your money but seeks to worm out of liability on the basis of a few signs. I don't think a judge would be too impressed. Anyway if the car is there at the customer's risk, why bother with security in the first place, why not leave the motor out in the open with the keys in the ignition? Doesn't the fact of the security suggest that they do accept a responsibility? I thought that the world had moved on from this sort of conduct, plainly I'm wrong. Stinks.