SV650S vs. Triumph TT600

OK, firstly I realise I'm likely to get a biased opinion on here and thats fine, but any help or advice would be great!

Now, I will be looking at test riding both the SV (K3-onwards) and the TT in the near future, but right now I'd really appreciate some opinions on the two bikes. As i see it, both are blessed with good brakes and handling. However, the SV is a 650cc bike and produces 70bhp & 47.2lb/ft vs. the TT600's 86.8bhp & 43.5lb/ft - why is this? V-twin vs. in-line four? And as such, is the TT a quicker machine, or will I not really notice the difference on the open road?

Secondly, my requirements. I am 6ft tall, athletic build, 13.5 stone. The missus is 5'3", slim and around 7.5 stone. Useage will be commuting most days (40 mile round trip, A-roads, B-roads and in town) on my own, plus pleasure riding on similar roads. However, I would also like to use the bike for trips up and down the A1 to see the inlaws, roughly 150 miles each way with the missus on the back. Finally, there may also be the possibility of some light touring round northern France - here the SV does have hard luggage available from the likes of Givi (and I will be getting the full lower fairings if it doesn't have them already if that aids protection from the elements) but the TT600 seems only to cater for soft luggage and less of it, but does come fully faired. Given the useage, running costs such as servicing and fuel economy are also important, so any indication of these would be good.





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So, bearing all this in mind - which of the two bikes would you pick and why, or would you recommend something completely different?

[rictus01]

having ridden loads of SV's and owned one myself (all be it a properly styled one), also an 02 TT600 I'm in a position to answer your questions, however judging by the questions you've asked and the ones you haven't I'd like to know you riding history and experience as these will effect the most compatible of the two.

Cheers Mark.

Hi Mark, thanks for the reply.

I have ridden various bikes but have no great experience. Had a 50cc scooter at 16, and have ridden an RX50 trail bike at the same time. Then rode nothing for about 4 years, have recently got back into it. Took my DAS on a CB500, spent quite a bit of time playing around off-road on a DT125R and a CR125 and have been pillion (and breifly ridden) the gf's dad's VFR800 VTEC. I'm looking for a first post-DAS bike that I will not get bored of too quickly and could hopefully hold its own with the afore mentioned VFR (thou I know I won't be able to as he is an ex-police rider and I am most definitely not!).

Please, advise away...!

[rictus01]

I though as much, but let me start be correcting a couple of your assumptions.

Firstly the two bikes are chalk & cheese, the power & torque feel totally different.

basically the SV is a road designed bike and a V twin engine.
the TT is a race inspired SuperSport 600 (you'll see them refered to as ss600's).

As far as bias goes, well I've been involved with SV's since the end of 2001 and owned one since May 2002, however i've also owned 5 Triumphs before that (all T5's) and the TT and a custom Speed triple since, and fan of both bikes, so I am probably the nearest you're going to find to a balanced view on these two bikes.

I'll give the low down on each bike first then my opinion.

The SV is a budget road bike, designed for the "first big bike" or commuter tool, the market is a slightly different take on the Bandit/Hornet/ER6 or Fazer. so although working well in normal use, both the brakes and suspension are budget items and will be found wanting if pushed hard.

The finish is also financially limited, this means the paint isn't that thick and can wear though or scuff more easily than you would think, also a great many fittings are cadmium coated, which will need constant attention to hold the effects of the british weather at bay.

The engine, it's a peach.
It makes the bike, high revving for the type, but also plenty of low down torque for instant go from low revs, getting used to the engine braking is something requiring a little practice but is soon mastered and can be massive fun. Standard tyres are not the best and there are better out there (see the tyre section).

It's a great bike for the money and ticks all the boxes.
Low insurance group.
Depended on your right hand up to 150 mile to a tank of juice
good on tyres and brakes also chain & sprockets (that's with a scottoiler fitted).
easy to have great fun at speeds up to the tonne and you'll see 130ish on the speedo flat out.
very forgiving for the mistakes you will no doubt have gaining experience.
Easy to work on yourself with basic tools (servicing is a simple task).
Easy to get spares for, and advice (such as here)
easy and cheap to modify/ customize and can be taken to extremes if you want to (add a race can for a wonderfully noise).
Has some easily fixed and well know issues (fenda extenda/ front fork springs & oil/ braided lines/ rear shock upgrade in time.).


Now the TT600, Triumphs first foray in to the ss600 market and a good one at that, race inspired if not tested, just about on the pace of the competition from Japan at the time and far more than you'll ever need on the road, the fuel injection problem harped on about in the press was quickly sorted and on most the re-map was done under standard servicing, anything newer than 2000 will have had the later mapping from new, the brakes and handling are probably the best around (and a world better than the SV's).

The finish, it's built for this country and to a higher price than the SV so will last better, the fixtures and fittings aren't cadmium so won't go furry in winter, the paint is good; not quit as fragile as the Suzuki's.

The engine, once again a peach, although in a different way.
It's an inline four (IL4), although making more power it's delivered in a totally different way and in a different place on the rev range (the SV WILL BE faster from a stand still for it's target group).
probably the best way to get it across would be to describe it as four bikes power wise.

0 - 4000 revs about the same as one of the 500 twins (CB500/GS500 or ER5) the SV will be faster here (and sound better to).

4000 - 6000 about the same performance as the SV, better responding than lower down.

6000 - 8000 better than the SV, sharper reacting and feeling light and maneuverable.

8000 - 10000 a fast bike, will easily out pull the SV, light and flick-able.

10000 - 14000 a ballistic missile, the SV has nothing to answer this, this is what the IL4 ss600 engine was made for ( but is rarely of use on the road).

You'll optimistically see 160 odd mph on the speedo.


More focused than the SV, and not as much fun at normal road speeds, the performance is outstanding very few riders will be able to use all it's got.

Insurance although one group lower than most of the ss600's wil still be 2 or three groups above that of the SV.
If you're able to restrain yourself then you should get around the same economy to the SV, however the engine loves to be revved and that will mean you could be seeing returns as low as 28-30 mpg
you'll probably fit sport tyres and get lower mileage than the sport tourers on the SV, so it'll cost you more there, also you'll find yourself going through brakes faster to .
The fairing is problematic to servicing and apart for basics I'd advise getting it done at a dealer.

The pillion is mostly an after thought and although the SV's isn't wonderful it's probably slightly better.
Handling the best of the crop,but you need to know how to if you're going to push it and use the performance on hand, it will bite, not very forgiving of rider errors.

You can get a few more HP with easy airbox mods and a race can, but not that much more around for customizing.
Bit of a rare bike so you'll have to go to a triumph dealer for just about everything, this will make it much more expensive to repair if you drop it.

My thoughts?

well loads of people get the ss600's but don't ride them anywhere near their performance limit as the roads just won't allow it or the law for that matter, but the major one is a lack of ability to.

So if you want a bike far more capable than you'll ever need, or intend to do a lot of trackdays and have the money to run it, then get the TT (or just about any other SS600.) It's no doubt the better on both build quality and overall performance.

Apart from a few well known issues the SV is just about ideal for gaining experience, very forgiving, cheap to fix, fast enough, that great sound (people will as if it's a 1000cc) and of course this wonderful community.

So in your case I'd go with the SV for a year or two, learn what you need then look at something else from there.

Hope that helps.

Cheers Mark.

Mark - that's fantastic stuff. I agree with the comments you've made and whilst I do love the idea of a TT (being British n'all) I hadn't really considered the two bikes from their different engine configurations and how this would affect riding.

Whichever bike will be garaged every night and I'm pretty anal about my car/bike cleaning rituals, so hopefully corrosion would be kept at bay on either bike, particularly the SV. The SV also benefits from this online community for help and advice, and may well be the more forgiving bike for a newer rider.

One point you made was about engine braking - am I likely to lock the rear wheel and get myself in a mess at any point with the SV?

For me, the other point is the newest TT will be 3 years old now, yet I can get a 2 year old SV for roughly £500 - £1,000 less. Whilst the SV was designed as a "beginner" bike and therefore built on a budget, there is no doubt that I was probably their target market so makes sense for me to try it!

I will still test ride both bikes but it looks like the SV has argued a strong case for itself (or you have on its behalf ) so i'll take it from there!

Thanks very much for your help!

Mike

[rictus01]

Originally Posted by MikeC

One point you made was about engine braking - am I likely to lock the rear wheel and get myself in a mess at any point with the SV?

Mike

You can indeed lock the back wheel but even that is predictable, but after a little while you'll have controlled this and even be using the engine braking to add another dimension to your riding.

I fully understand the "buy British" and have had a Hinkley Triumph's since 97 truly awesome machines.

Cheers Mark.

Originally Posted by MikeC

One point you made was about engine braking - am I likely to lock the rear wheel and get myself in a mess at any point with the SV?

Not through engine braking alone you won't, but as Rictus said you can lock the back wheel - as you can with any bike thorugh silly down-shifts or over-doing the rear brake, etc.

A guy at work owns one of the older TTs and he loves it, and to be fair it is a really nice bike, but it is different on so many levels from an SV.

I'd say take both for a test ride and see where you go from there. Chances are you'll go to the shop and decide on something totally different anyway. Just go for the one that feels right at the end of the day.

[fizzwheel]

My SV was my first Post DAS bike. I rode it pretty much everyday in all types of weathers for two years. I purchased a K5 GSXR-750 in March this year. I'm damn near on convinced that riding the SV taught me loads and I wouldnt get as much fun out of the GSXR as I do if I had had SS600 first. I think I would have had a couple of nasty moments on the GSXR and knocked my confidence and I'd have probably crashed it and hurt myself to.

So I'd echo what Rictus says about the SV being a good bike to gain experience on. Also in a couple of years time you'll have some no claims bonus so when you do move up to something bigger your insurance will be cheaper.

As another Triumph (and formerly SV) owner, I'd agree with everything that Mark says. I've ridden the Speed Four, which is basically an unfaired TT600. For commuting, the SV definitely wins as the v-twin engine is more flexible at low rpm. At town speeds, the Triumph IL4 feels a bit gutless and only wakes up at higher rpm. If you want a fun, friendly, quick bike for commutes and occasional motorways, the SV is the one to go for. If you need a missile with razor-sharp handling, get the TT600.

Thansk for the replies guys!

I think I'll take both bikes for a ride but however much I lvoe the TT, I think it'll be the SV that actually suits my requirements and experience the best! Must say thou, it has to be fully faired - i love the fully faired SV, it looks a bit skinny wth just the upper bikini fairing in place IMO!

How much should I be looking at paying? I figured £2,500 should secure me a 2003/4 bike with less than 10k on the clock and £3k should be absolute top wack for any secondhand SV650S...does that sound about right?