Bike Not Starting

[flymo]

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

Flymo, it' a 99 Naked 650

And yup, you are correct...I did also power the starter motor straight from battery.


Ben

Ben I dont have a workshop manual for that model but in the one I have for my K3 there is a pretty useful section that covers step by step troubleshooting of the ignition systems etc. If you can get one its worth stepping through that.

It covers testing various components to elliminate them from the problem. Obvious ones to check are kill switch, clutch switch, side stand switch, ignition switch (key) and all associated connectors, all fuses. It could also be coils and/or coil connectors, pickup coil fault (crankshaft position sensor to use its posh name), ECU fault, dodgy earth connection (check main engine earth). Battery connections, battery charge.

Originally Posted by flymo

I dont think that was the case though, maybe I misunderstood the post but I thought 21 had powered the starter by means of jump leads to the starter motor terminals. If thats the case it'll do nothing except spin the motor.

you can power starter from external source and as long key is turned on and rest of bike powered it will start. you do need to ground external source to bike.
his starter is turning meaning there is power going from kill switch to starter relay. which also means he has power to fuse box, ignition lock....etc.question is does other power wire from kill switch work (orange/white). this wire feeds coils and cdi with 12v. if he has power there than only thing left is signal that tells CDI to fire coils. either pulse generator or resistor in ignition. or one of this wires having bad contact.
all other stuff like clutch switch, stand switch, broken power wire.... would not let starter work in first place.
I may be missing something that is not popping in my head right now.

[flymo]

Originally Posted by zadar

you can power starter from external source and as long key is turned on and rest of bike powered it will start. you do need to ground external source to bike.
his starter is turning meaning there is power going from kill switch to starter relay. which also means he has power to fuse box, ignition lock....etc.question is does other power wire from kill switch work (orange/white). this wire feeds coils and cdi with 12v. if he has power there than only thing left is signal that tells CDI to fire coils. either pulse generator or resistor in ignition. or one of this wires having bad contact.
all other stuff like clutch switch, stand switch, broken power wire.... would not let starter work in first place.
I may be missing something that is not popping in my head right now.

I think you're missing this, if you jump lead straight to earth and the positive terminal on the starter motor from another battery, the starter will spin up the engine. this doesnt require any of the bike electrics to be working at all.

Originally Posted by flymo

I think you're missing this, if you jump lead straight to earth and the positive terminal on the starter motor from another battery, the starter will spin up the engine. this doesnt require any of the bike electrics to be working at all.

I am not missing that, I know that. I had my starter not wired to bike at all. I was starting my bike with external battery.
still with key on bike will start.
he did have starter turning with external power, just bike was not starting.
he is missing spark.

[flymo]

Originally Posted by zadar

I am not missing that, I know that. I had my starter not wired to bike at all. I was starting my bike with external battery.
still with key on bike will start.
he did have starter turning with external power, just bike was not starting.
he is missing spark.

I think we are saying the same thing really. The problem is that the ignition circuit has a fault and therefor there is no spark. I thought you were stating that as a result of the starter motor spinning then this is somehow proving certain parts of the ignition circuit are ok, and I dont think thats the case.

For whatever reason that ignition circuit is not functioning properly due to one of the reasons I listed earlier, and thats why we get no spark. The problem 21 has is that he has to find which part of the ignition circuit is faulty.

yes, we are saying same thing as far starter goes.
here is deal. he has power coming to ignition lock which means rest of bike is powered up to that point, which is fuse box (fuses all good?) and regulator. than he turns key and he is getting power to kill switch. we know kill switch is getting power from ignition lock and sending power out to starter relay. next thing is to check if kill switch is powering cdi and coils, which is orange/white wire. if not you start tracing that wire back to kill switch to find loose connection. if there is power on orange/white than signal is only thing left to not fire coils. what powers second wire on coils? cdi using input from pulse generator. only thing that interrupts cdi from sending that signal to coil is resistor inside ignition lock. without resistor everything on bike works, starter spins but bike never fires. this are two leads that I would look in to.
making sure power from kill switch is reaching coils and cdi box and if yes than look at ignition lock and pulse generator wires for bad connections.

the way I understand he has power everywhere except spark is missing on spark plugs.

[21QUEST]

Thanks Flymo and Zadar . I feel confident(famous last words haha) that we are going to find the fault tomorrow.

We don't want to get the sledge hammer out , do we ....



Ben

[21QUEST]

Originally Posted by zadar

the way I understand he has power everywhere except spark is missing on spark plugs.

Correctumundo


Ben

Ben, as promised (post pizza & beer - more beer than pizza):

Dodgy plugs? Take the HT lead off, new plug on, spark against the frame? (in case you're like Baldyman, keep the old plugs in the engine when you do this, please!!)

Loose/broken connection somewhere in the ignition circuit (as it was intermittent before?) ?

Faulty HT lead/plug cap? Faulty ignition switch or kill switch (continuity checks according to diagram)? Faulty clutch switch? Faulty pulse generator (continuity to earth = fault, 140-230 ohms as per diagram, 3V min peak)? Faulty HT coils (3.5 to 5.5 ohms primary winding, 20-31k ohms (with plug cap) secondary, 150V peak, at 20degC - if peak is wrong but resistance is OK, fault is elsewhere) ? ICU fault (swap it to test)?

HTH.