Running in, what's your view? - Page 5 - SV650.org

19-10-06, 05:47 PM

Would a restricted engine have any long or short term problem due to it being restricted?

I only ask because I may be in that situation in a month or so

19-10-06, 06:09 PM

Few people actually keep their bikes for long enough anyway for the running in period to have any detrimental effect. Well, thats based on the number of bikes for sale with about 1-10k on the odometer.

Personally I'd just ride it as is but I've not been foolish enough to buy new yet (that day will come

)

19-10-06, 11:18 PM

Wow, I wasn't expecting this many responses in this short space of time.

The simple fact is only the engine builder will know how tight the tolerances are for each particular engine they build, that is if they have done their job properly.

When I was building engines as part of my job years ago, so many people never bothered to check the tolerances it made me mad. Several times I had to adjust ring gaps because they were too tight. I never ever saw anybody check bearing nip on the big end and main shell bearings. If they were too tight it could cause the shell to distort causing too much fiction in one area and not enough in others. Several times the builders would wonder why they couldn't turn the crankshaft by hand after fitting it and then not bothering to do anything about it.

If an engine has been put together well the bottom end should be run in in a short period of time. After all the surface of the shell bearings are made of soft metal. Heat will be there worst enemy. Especially if they are distorted. Manufacturers these days only use a fine honing pattern on the cylinder bores, which means you do only have a few hundred miles to get the rings bedded in. The only way to get the rings pushed out to the cylinder walls is high combustion pressures. The only way to get this is by giving the engine some stick. So here we have a conflict of interests.

The sad fact is that if a new engine is treated gently, oil and combustion gases get past the rings and into the ring grooves. Once this happens a sludge of burnt oil and soot begins to clog up the grooves and rings preventing them from working as effeciently. The engine will not give as much compression and will tend to cunsume more oil than an engine that has been run in hard. This last statement is not always true as it also depends how good the oil control ring is at its job. This is usually the bottom ring on the piston and allows oil to drain back to the crankcase so it does not enter the combustion chamber.

Tim.

20-10-06, 08:17 AM

Bring s us back to THRASH THE TITS OF IT but gently As the bike is under warranty for two years and my personal experience is that an engine pushed hard from day one is usually quicker and less oil consumption. My engine had done 13K
[before I binned it] was fast and free reving and never used any oil. As stated in prior posts in is unusual for an owner to keep a bike for a life time. My only suggestion ,which I did myself,is give it a couple of quick oil changes i.e. 200miles
600miles and then 1500miles thereby removing any metal particals that may be circulating and not trapped by the filter or magnetic sump plug

Clean oil and filters is the best thing for prolonging trouble free motoring

embee · 20-10-06, 09:33 AM

This is another topic where too many times people talk in terms of black and white - bee too gentle vs thrash it.

Break-in is a progressive process and should be done correctly, end of.

Sliding speed is the critical issue for the first phase of piston/liner interface break-in, new components have very small contact areas and frictional heat generated can cause the oil film to break down and lead to micro-welding and tearing of the surfaces, this will not subsequently heal. Sorry but that's a fact of life, and no amount of ah-but's can change it. This phase is more akin to a machining process than a wear process.

Use moderate engine speeds for the first couple of hours and you'll get through this phase.

Then progressively increase speeds and loads, using higher speeds at light load and following on with high load at the lower speeds, and progressively bring the speed load combinations up the rev range. By about 20hrs/600mls on a road-based break-in you should be using near full power occasionally.

Is 600miles of controlled use such a big issue? Just do it and then get on and enjoy the bike.

Production engines are manufactured and built under strict process control so it's very unlikely that incorrect clearances/nips/overstands etc are built into it. Design and development processes ensure that the new engine is tolerant of "abuse" without failure, but that's not to say that everyone should do a "cold-scuff" test on their new engine just because it can survive it.

...but at the end of the day it's your engine so do with it what you will......

20-10-06, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by instigator

Few people actually keep their bikes for long enough anyway for the running in period to have any detrimental effect. Well, thats based on the number of bikes for sale with about 1-10k on the odometer.

Personally I'd just ride it as is but I've not been foolish enough to buy new yet (that day will come

)

If you believe what the mototune guy says, too gentle running in will lead to it making less power and burning more oil from day one.

21-10-06, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linco

Would a restricted engine have any long or short term problem due to it being restricted?

I only ask because I may be in that situation in a month or so

Has anyone got some information on this?

I was going to buy a new SV650S next may when my 33bhp restriction was over and when i finished Uni. However, the new deal with the SV650 sport is something to consider especially for the full comp insurance and the fact i was going to buy lowers anyway.

If i buy the SV sport soon (which is 95% likely as i have the money) i will need to get it restricted.

So does a restricted engine have an effect during the running in period which a normal engine woudlnt?

northwind · 21-10-06, 05:34 PM

I would doubt it, since the diet engine's still able to do everything that a full-fat one would, just with less power. But I'm no engineer.

21-10-06, 07:47 PM

jkchops - The restrictor kits are just washers in the inlet right??? Or are they ECUs preventing it from revving???

To be fair ‘running in by the book’ (a restrictor would not make a difference to that as you need to keep the revs and load down. A restrictor will essentially help you do that) is never going to harm the engine, worst case is you will get glazed bores, and they are not detrimental to longevity, just power and oil consumption.

22-10-06, 06:20 PM

restrictor kit isn't with the ecu -no. I took delivery of a brand new k6 on friday- have done 250miles over the weekend

i've kept it pretty much at 5500rpm, but have thrashed it to 8000 a couple of times. I was riding in heavy rain today and there was steam/smoke bellowing up from the front - through the tacho. I presume it was water evaporating on the radiator. Has anyone else had this?

View Poll Results: Running in what's your view?
I only bought the bike to clean it at weekends so it will never get run in.	1	2.78%
I never go over 5000 revs anyway because I'm a wimp and I might damage something.	1	2.78%
Run it in by the book, the manufacturer knows best. Anyway I like having my piston rings full of oil sludge and carbon deposits.	27	75.00%
Be gentle for 50 miles, change oil and filter using ordinary mineral oil and spend the next 500 miles trying to kill the bike.	7	19.44%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

21-10-06, 05:34 PM	#48
northwind Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In the garage where I belong Posts: 17,083	I would doubt it, since the diet engine's still able to do everything that a full-fat one would, just with less power. But I'm no engineer. __________________ "We are the angry mob, we read the papers every day We like what we like, we hate what we hate But we're oh so easily swayed"

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19-10-06, 05:47 PM	#41
linco Guest Posts: n/a	Would a restricted engine have any long or short term problem due to it being restricted? I only ask because I may be in that situation in a month or so

19-10-06, 06:09 PM	#42
instigator Guest Posts: n/a	Few people actually keep their bikes for long enough anyway for the running in period to have any detrimental effect. Well, thats based on the number of bikes for sale with about 1-10k on the odometer. Personally I'd just ride it as is but I've not been foolish enough to buy new yet (that day will come )

19-10-06, 11:18 PM	#43
I'm_a_Newbie Guest Posts: n/a	Wow, I wasn't expecting this many responses in this short space of time. The simple fact is only the engine builder will know how tight the tolerances are for each particular engine they build, that is if they have done their job properly. When I was building engines as part of my job years ago, so many people never bothered to check the tolerances it made me mad. Several times I had to adjust ring gaps because they were too tight. I never ever saw anybody check bearing nip on the big end and main shell bearings. If they were too tight it could cause the shell to distort causing too much fiction in one area and not enough in others. Several times the builders would wonder why they couldn't turn the crankshaft by hand after fitting it and then not bothering to do anything about it. If an engine has been put together well the bottom end should be run in in a short period of time. After all the surface of the shell bearings are made of soft metal. Heat will be there worst enemy. Especially if they are distorted. Manufacturers these days only use a fine honing pattern on the cylinder bores, which means you do only have a few hundred miles to get the rings bedded in. The only way to get the rings pushed out to the cylinder walls is high combustion pressures. The only way to get this is by giving the engine some stick. So here we have a conflict of interests. The sad fact is that if a new engine is treated gently, oil and combustion gases get past the rings and into the ring grooves. Once this happens a sludge of burnt oil and soot begins to clog up the grooves and rings preventing them from working as effeciently. The engine will not give as much compression and will tend to cunsume more oil than an engine that has been run in hard. This last statement is not always true as it also depends how good the oil control ring is at its job. This is usually the bottom ring on the piston and allows oil to drain back to the crankcase so it does not enter the combustion chamber. Tim.

20-10-06, 08:17 AM	#44
Dicky Ticker Guest Posts: n/a	Bring s us back to THRASH THE TITS OF IT but gently As the bike is under warranty for two years and my personal experience is that an engine pushed hard from day one is usually quicker and less oil consumption. My engine had done 13K [before I binned it] was fast and free reving and never used any oil. As stated in prior posts in is unusual for an owner to keep a bike for a life time. My only suggestion ,which I did myself,is give it a couple of quick oil changes i.e. 200miles 600miles and then 1500miles thereby removing any metal particals that may be circulating and not trapped by the filter or magnetic sump plug Clean oil and filters is the best thing for prolonging trouble free motoring

20-10-06, 09:33 AM	#45
embee Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Warwickshire Posts: 2,804	This is another topic where too many times people talk in terms of black and white - bee too gentle vs thrash it. Break-in is a progressive process and should be done correctly, end of. Sliding speed is the critical issue for the first phase of piston/liner interface break-in, new components have very small contact areas and frictional heat generated can cause the oil film to break down and lead to micro-welding and tearing of the surfaces, this will not subsequently heal. Sorry but that's a fact of life, and no amount of ah-but's can change it. This phase is more akin to a machining process than a wear process. Use moderate engine speeds for the first couple of hours and you'll get through this phase. Then progressively increase speeds and loads, using higher speeds at light load and following on with high load at the lower speeds, and progressively bring the speed load combinations up the rev range. By about 20hrs/600mls on a road-based break-in you should be using near full power occasionally. Is 600miles of controlled use such a big issue? Just do it and then get on and enjoy the bike. Production engines are manufactured and built under strict process control so it's very unlikely that incorrect clearances/nips/overstands etc are built into it. Design and development processes ensure that the new engine is tolerant of "abuse" without failure, but that's not to say that everyone should do a "cold-scuff" test on their new engine just because it can survive it. ...but at the end of the day it's your engine so do with it what you will......

21-10-06, 07:47 PM	#49
Blue_SV650S Guest Posts: n/a	jkchops - The restrictor kits are just washers in the inlet right??? Or are they ECUs preventing it from revving??? To be fair ‘running in by the book’ (a restrictor would not make a difference to that as you need to keep the revs and load down. A restrictor will essentially help you do that) is never going to harm the engine, worst case is you will get glazed bores, and they are not detrimental to longevity, just power and oil consumption.

22-10-06, 06:20 PM	#50
gettin2dizzy Guest Posts: n/a	restrictor kit isn't with the ecu -no. I took delivery of a brand new k6 on friday- have done 250miles over the weekend i've kept it pretty much at 5500rpm, but have thrashed it to 8000 a couple of times. I was riding in heavy rain today and there was steam/smoke bellowing up from the front - through the tacho. I presume it was water evaporating on the radiator. Has anyone else had this?