Freeman or Freeloaders, lets decide.

Originally Posted by TamSV

Without putting words in your mouth, I have the feeling that you'd like us to lead a simpler life, possibly a little bit poorer in the material sense, with less intrusion on the minutae of our lives? If so, I'm with you.

Prity much yes..

Originally Posted by Jamesy D

People who live in Syria and get shot at by tanks for protesting, or people in Zimbabwe who disappear, are tortured and then killed under the orders of the government, or those in Palestine who are again, shelled by tanks and bulldozed for throwing rocks.


I'm lucky enough to live in the UK and be safe from things like that, so I can't draw a comparison, and would never seek to.

And who is behind the whole israel thing? our government and the us government they are helping to systematicaly wipe out the the palestinian people.

Just because you havent been on the sticky end of a policeman's batton doesnt mean we dont live in a police state, admittedly it's not as far gone as say america but i think you will find event's in america very interesting over the next couple of year's..

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Messie

An argument based on belief and opinion is, to me, a philosophy or worse, a religion.

All in all, I prefer science.

But you're talking about the value, ownership and allegiance of the person, what science supports that other than power growing from the barrel of a gun? We can ask the met how ballistics and democracy go together ey?

Personally anything that creates difficulty and expense for the government when they try and enforce revenue generation and unjust laws, I think is absolutely excellent. Since when 'your' MPs refuse to lift a finger on your behalf, what other recourse is there than non-violent protest?

I also think we are/have been drifting more towards a police state, simply with the illusion of democracy. Mainly because of the left trying to pry into every aspect of life while creating a vast party apparatus around itself.

Originally Posted by Messie

All very interesting. I'm impressed by the knowledge and quality arguments coming from some people on here.

But I don't get the line of reasoning also shown here, which is roughly along the lines of 'I believe in something; I think you should believe in this something also but I'm not going to show you how to believe in this something, you have to go and find it out for yourself'

MM I've tried to listen to your arguments, and I've had a good look around many websites, but nowhere can I see FOTL (that's not Fruit of the Loom) present logical, rational and real world evidence to convinve me.

An argument based on belief and opinion is, to me, a philosophy or worse, a religion.

All in all, I prefer science.

The freeman term is just a label it's more about a personal state of mind which is becoming more collective, as ive said already it is a relatively new movement here in the uk, it's alot more advanced in canada and america, dont under estimate it it's growing every day and solution's will follow.

Yeah but has anyone asked if he was speeding?

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

But you're talking about the value, ownership and allegiance of the person, what science supports that other than power growing from the barrel of a gun? We can ask the met how ballistics and democracy go together ey?

Personally anything that creates difficulty and expense for the government when they try and enforce revenue generation and unjust laws, I think is absolutely excellent. Since when 'your' MPs refuse to lift a finger on your behalf, what other recourse is there than non-violent protest?

I also think we are/have been drifting more towards a police state, simply with the illusion of democracy. Mainly because of the left trying to pry into every aspect of life while creating a vast party apparatus around itself.

We seem to be on the same page chris, thing's get changed by them so slowly and they sell the idea's to us such as the anti-terrorism bill that was produced after 9-11, they now have more power's than you can imagine, i,e legaly tap your phone, gain access to text message's and internet information, now i dont have anything to hide other than my privacy and that to me is a blatant abuse of it.

People think the police are here to protect them which they do indeed to alot of the time however if the line's were drawn between us the people and the government then bet your ass the police will be protecting them and not us it happen's every time.

You try doing something that challenge's the state machine and see how fast you get a tazer in you back, No police state eh Hmm.

Originally Posted by Quedos

Yeah but has anyone asked if he was speeding?

Who?

Originally Posted by Bibio

and this is making criminals out of honest law abiding citizens.

Agreed

i agree that there has to be something done about the madness of PC, health and safety etc.etc. but unless all of us do something about it then its just going to get worse. this i'm afraid is never going to happen because as a nation we are a bunch of greedy, money grabbing, back stabbing, self obsessed, consumer focused individuals who's world ends at our doors. the powers that be know this and use it to their advantage as they know we will do nothing about it for fear of loosing our way of living.

We are a little to lazy and comfortable at the moment

so have your little anarchist groups and freedom movements etc.etc but at the end of the day the only and i mean the only way to make a difference is from the inside. as we have seen recently screaming and shouting does nothing, they will do as they please when they please.

It's not as small as you may think

Originally Posted by markmoto

We seem to be on the same page chris, thing's get changed by them so slowly and they sell the idea's to us such as the anti-terrorism bill that was produced after 9-11, they now have more power's than you can imagine, i,e legaly tap your phone, gain access to text message's and internet information, now i dont have anything to hide other than my privacy and that to me is a blatant abuse of it.

.

before that they always did - they just made it public from then on in
90% of the stuff that we know about know they have been doing since day dot. they are making in more transparent. Note i did not say it was a good thing

Originally Posted by Quedos

before that they always did - they just made it public from then on in
90% of the stuff that we know about know they have been doing since day dot. they are making in more transparent. Note i did not say it was a good thing

It is my understanding that they had to get a court order to do this previous to this act being passed, whereas now they can just do it, it is through these act's that our liberties get taken away without most people knowing because nearly no one ever read's the act's they pass.