Pointy swing arm side play.

[DavieSV]

correct

[Sid Squid]

First off I'd make sure that everything is right and in the right place. No disrespect intended - I'm sure it is all the right bits - but it's worth checking there isn't a rogue bit in there somewhere.

Then, assuming it is, I'd do this:

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

I think you need to grind down the spacer so the bearing inners are flush with the outers. (if they stick out). Then have some washers so the ends of the swingarm bear there.

Or a suitable spacer, (or spacers; depending whether I wanted to move the swingarm to the left/right, or share it out side to side), with a larger inner diameter than the bearing inner bush, and grind its/their thickness so the swingarm is the same width as the bearing assembly, (with suitable clearance, obviously.

[punyXpress]

Have you got even wear on inner/outer edges of rear sprocket? If not it MAY indicatewhole rear end is located a bit sideways.

Interesting! I hope conversation goes on althought I take part

DavieSV: you are not missing anything (there is difference with pointy vs curvy), I am sure that there in no parts that can wear like this. So what is left is manufacturing mistake. Spacers (bushes) have wrong dimension, I think center spacer is too long. I strongly believe that there is several bikes that have this problem but this is not very common. Otherwise people in good forums like this would straight have ideas about reason or answers what to do. I have asked this around world and I have got answers that there should be 1.5mm gap ”as otherwise swing arm can’t move freely”. I don’t believe that. Everybody who knows what is saying says that there should not be the gap. At the moment I think that bike is dangerous if there is so big play. My pointy bike makes strange moves and I believe this gap is the reason or atleast biggest reason. I bought original Suzuki bearings and spacers (190e ! luckily dealer paid 150e), but there is no sense to change them: I measured bearing spacer and it has exactly same lenght as old. Looks that you are thinking if to use shims to correct this. I am not sure what to do. If you put shims you might next year have swing arm with bad grooves made by shims. I don’t know. Maybe best is to machine bearing spacer, then you have correct parts contacting each other. But as you said then there is no way back. If you put shims I think you should put them on RHS, if LHS => rear wheel is shifted to right. Spacer machining don’t do that. Could you please tell your conclusions here as I understood that you try shims tomorrow.
Bibio: can you confirm that I understood correctly. Do you mean that you have checked several SVs and they all have this play? I checked other Suzukis in dealer and none of them had play. Two experienced Suzuki mechanics have said that there should not be any play. Unfortunately I have not found any other SV to check it by myself.

SVdemon: maybe we are discussing different issues. This gap is not possible to handle with over torquing. Believe me, I tried, it is not possible to shrink stiff center spacer 1.5mm.

Yorkie Chris: if I understood correctly you mean (answer 20) that bearings transfer force axially in this package. I don’t think so. Bearing spacer should contact swing arm, not bearing in axial direction. Bearing is not active part in axial direction.

Fastdruid: I believe still that SV construction is very good. For example Bandit type is not so good: tight machining tolerance that there is no excessive gap (needs some), expensive and difficult to assemble. I think that shim plates are not good, Honda has them in some models. SV is cheap, easy to assemble and ensures easy move. (I didn’t study your text carefully what type is VFR)

I have this general question: I think that shaft torque 15Nm is so small that there should not be any gap at all, instead small torque makes it possible for swing arm to move freely (I mean without any gap there), when shaft pushes bearing spacers against swing arm and that package against LHS frame. Does someone disagree?

Lots of blaa-blaa…

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Mannerheim

Yorkie Chris: if I understood correctly you mean (answer 20) that bearings transfer force axially in this package. I don’t think so. Bearing spacer should contact swing arm, not bearing in axial direction. Bearing is not active part in axial direction.

In post #20 I was meaning the tension on the spindle equating to a force on the opposite side of the frame.

On the curvy there is a cap with a steel washer. It is a snug fit over the end of the swingarm. This part ends up clamped rigidly to the spacer tube/frame so it is stationary. The swingarm spins within this and it is this that provides axial location/reaction force and allows movement.
It is only a thin washer so it will allow some flex (i.e if the spacer is too short, the edges may flex outward slightly).

So you should have bought curvy

Ok!
Yeah - lets see if I next summer sell this machine to the insurance company

Originally Posted by Mannerheim

SVdemon: maybe we are discussing different issues. This gap is not possible to handle with over torquing. Believe me, I tried, it is not possible to shrink stiff center spacer 1.5mm.

I built the swingarm assembly back up and found the movement was still there, I torqued the nut up another quarter turn and the movement is gone. I checked the swingarm moved freely and it did. I'm happy I have no slop in the bearings and therefore I trust my bike more in corners. I'll eat my hat if the frame cracks as a result of that!

[fastdruid]

Originally Posted by Mannerheim

Fastdruid: I believe still that SV construction is very good. For example Bandit type is not so good: tight machining tolerance that there is no excessive gap (needs some), expensive and difficult to assemble. I think that shim plates are not good, Honda has them in some models. SV is cheap, easy to assemble and ensures easy move. (I didn’t study your text carefully what type is VFR)

My VFR is an FJ but the CBR600RR uses virtually the same technique.



Druid

^ok.
Svdemon: yes I believe frame won't crack cause of that. Looks that you have more "ordinary bearing problem" than I. My bike has so big issue that it can't be handled like yours.

[DavieSV]

Originally Posted by Mannerheim

I bought original Suzuki bearings and spacers (190e ! luckily dealer paid 150e), but there is no sense to change them: I measured bearing spacer and it has exactly same lenght as old

If that is the case, then the problem must be with the length of the bearing housing pivot tube on the swing arm itself.

Just for the record my frame No is JS1BY132200104735. It may just be one or two random parts that escaped the quality control or there may be a batch of swing arms out there with the same problem.

There is no wear marks on the end faces of the tube and there is still signs of paint, so the tube has not been shortened through wear.

I have made various shims. The problem now lies in what side to put them.
There is no way of telling if the eube is short on the left or right side. The bores in the end of the tube that house the bearings seem to be the same depth, so it just depends on which end located on the welding jig.



I have placed one 0.5mm shim on both ends of the tube. It has eliminated all play and the shaft still rotates freely.



I can get the wheels in line by using the chain adjusters. I'll just have to wait untill I get it all together to check sprockets are in line but I think everything will be OK.

I'll try and get it in the frame later tonight and see the results with all the nuts torqued up, but I am confident this will eliminate my problem.