OK, I have scared myself...

[JamesMio]

Originally Posted by Bri w

Life is not a p!55ing contest based around your chicken strips.

It's taken me almost 3 years of riding to decide that - the only way I used to keep up with the quicker guys I ride with was to ride way, way quicker than my comfort levels would normally allow.

Nowadays, I'm quite happy to scoot about within the speed limits ((the odd blip aside on roads that I know, and can see far enough ahead that there's nothing coming.

I'm hoping that once all the horrendous expense of buying a house has died down (which I don't foresee happening any time soon) that I'll be able to pick up something like an old naked Curvy for potting around and commuting on, and keep the Blade for the more spirited runs once in a while.

I'm a safe rider, pretty much all the time, however one of the things I've assessed from the ride-out on Sunday, is that I took risks I normally wouldn't. Such as (how shall I put it...?) getting to the front of the line to let the lead know we've missed a mark (read between the lines there). At times, I rode too close to the vehicle in front - a pet hate of mine.

It'll be a while before I'm back on the bike, but that's down to self repair than anything else. I want to be back out on it as soon as possible. My only apprehension is how I'll feel when I'm actually sat back on it. A friend collected the bike yesterday, I thought I'd hit loose gravel, but he says there was diesel and the surface looked greasy. I don't really know what happened, was going slow for the bend, front wheel went and I low sided - didn't go far, just kind of flopped over.

Mortality is a natural thought process, but I haven't questioned mine for long, as I tend not to put myself at that kind of risk. In the two years I've been riding I've never broken a ton. Sure for some of you that must sound like I've never lived, but I've nothing to prove to anyone. I like living, like my bike and like having my licence.

The issue here Ralph, is that the roads aren't race tracks. Treating them like they are does nobody any favours. It results in accidents, deaths, damage to other peoples property, reduction in speed limits and installation of speed cameras and plenty of coppers about.

Before I started biking I had a Land Rover Defender 110. In one of those, the other vehicle is the crumple zone. I'm a confident driver, read the roads and other road users intentions well. There's only two times I've been scared on four wheels. One was nodding off on the M1. The other was on the Cat & Fiddle road in the Landy, summer evening, plenty of bikers "hooning". The speeds and lean angles made it positively scary to see them heading round bends.

I've no interest in being rude to you, you seem like a decent bloke and are a helpful contributor to making this the best forum I've ever been part of. Although I think my point of view is clear - leave it out mate! Do yourself, your loved ones and other road users a favour, take a leaf out of Flymo's book and save it for the track.

Read your post, and not read any others so apologies.

Now im all for having some fun, enjoying a brisk ride out, but I never feel the need to be travelling fast enough on the road to have pegs down and even run the risk of getting anywhere near that kind of pace to put myself in that situation. I ride quite fast, but I always remember im on the road, not a racetrack. To be having those kinda accidents have you not thought you might be riding too fast for the road/your abilities?

Personnally i just say, slow down, you don't NEED to go that fast on the road. Why not wait and do a trackday and if your gonna bin it, at least its in a safe enviroment.

Like those bikesafe adverts say. its not the accident, its what you hit after you've come off that'll kill you.

Hence why im all for trackdays. Sure ride fast on the road at points, but only well within your limits. The road is not the place to be hooning your skills.

[gruntygiggles]

Only thing I can say t that Daimo is that you don't need to be going fast to get your peg/knee down, that's just about lean angle or hanging off the bike.

But yes....you are spot on with the track day advice!

[dizzyblonde]

Well as I said yesterday, big up for admitting you ride too fast. So far you have been lucky in which you've had relatively minor injuries.
Thing is, you could be me and see what living with two fellas having seriously nasty injuries after a MC accident entail. Unfortunately they weren't riding fast, and it was someone elses fault, BUT I have it in my mind that I would prefer to have a leg that works, so I keep SAFE, not slow, SAFE, there is a difference.
I also keep in mind I have family, I'm a mother first. Then again most women seem to have a natural way in just riding safely and not like most blokes idiots.
Ralph you are far from an idiot, but you are a bloke, so naturally like to ride fast and push harder. Always ends in tears eventually.
I'm pretty honest and opinionated( I try not to patronise but it comes out wrong) when it comes to people falling off and riding like tits, but those close to me that don't take notice will one day be sat there with their other halves having to put up with their tantrums and frustrations while they can't walk properly, or are in never ending pain, drinking themselves to death to relieve pain, have permanent ugly scars that they are paranoid over...and maybe they might think, I wish I'd listened to Lou.

But they never do, and I hope it never happens, because quite frankly I'd rather be safe on the road than have to put up with a lifetime of agony when things go seriously wrong. I've sat on that fence for many years looking in and standing by, and paid the price with my own health on that one, so why be selfish to those around you and ride like a tit? Much better to be happy and be safe.

[yorkie_chris]

I dunno about the track bit. Fast road riding is completely different challenge to track, especially compared to bumpy twisty B roads.

For me I find the little back roads just as much fun as track and a completely different and very rewarding set of challenges.

Beauty is you set the level of risk yourself, entirely your own choice where you leave the margins. So go slow around that blind bend leaving plenty of room, but at the right revs, so when it opens up you can leather the throttle and bounce the front end in the air while the tyre struggles for grip.
big grin.

[ophic]

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

Thing is, you could be me

I always bear that in mind, no matter how bad things get, they could be worse. I could be dizzyblonde!!!!

Originally Posted by rictus01

I choose to face my demons, but that is my character I guess and the way I've always delt with these things

It's my character too, which is perhaps why the way I'm feeling about this is a bit of a minefield for me. I'm a get back up and fight, without hesitation, kind of person, and having my confidence knocked to the extend that I sit where I am and think about it for a while before getting back up is a completely new concept for me. I am arrogant sometimes, but I'm not being conceited when I say that I succeed in everything I set my mind to, close friends and family would tell you the same thing, and I can honestly say I've never experienced a confidence knock like this before. It's the realisation that getting back up and fighting, without doing too much analysis about what has just happened, on a bike could get me killed, as I just repeat the same mistakes.

Originally Posted by Bri w

First of all you've got to analyse whether or not your recent off could have been reasonably avoided, e.g. yes it could but only by going silly slow. That will give you a basis on which regain your trust in your own ability...

A therapist will tell you to slowly expose yourself to the demons, building your confidence with each experience. They will also tell you that the "what if" syndrome is self defeating and a waste of your life - paralysis by analysis

That's really interesting Bri, thanks. It could have been avoided if I had not been so committed to the bend that I couldn't change line.

I do want to face demons, and your post and Rictus has helped me to see that they way to do that is get the thinking in the armchair done and dusted, then get back to riding and deal with it in the saddle.

"Paralysis by analysis" is a good one.

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

You put yourself into those situations on hartside and in Ireland, a bit less pace and better obs and analysis and I wander whether you would have had those offs at all.

It's difficult to comment as I wasn't there though, apologies if post is a bit blunt. But maybe that's what you needed to hear.

Blunt not a problem, I asked for people's opinions.

I don't think my obs is an issue, it's over confidence and attitude to risk that's an issue. Obs was entirely irrelevant to accidents 1 and 2, and in accident 3 I saw the gravel and knew I was about to hit it, but was going too quick to avoid it.

Originally Posted by simesb

Reading between the line of this para, it seems like you are a safe rider until you meet a skills challenge ( correct me if I'm wrong)

Correct, and GG expands on the same a little

Originally Posted by gruntygiggles

be it to test your skills against what you've done before, or another rider you are out with...or just that you want to nail it because it feels good... the speed and control of the bike through the twisties could possibly become a bit like a drug.

It may sound stupid, but I do it partially because of the adrenaline buzz, partially because I want to improve my skills, like with practice I can knock a few seconds off my time

Originally Posted by muffles

Do you do track days at all?

No, but I think they definitely look like being part of the solution.

Originally Posted by gruntygiggles

sharing these things reminds us newbies that while we feel great.....we are actually just stuck in a false sense of security.

Very true, up until this point I have been in a false sense of security, and that's what I mean about visiting that dark place and getting back on the bike with your eyes fully open. Maybe reading this thread can help somebody else too.

Originally Posted by gruntygiggles

It takes some guts to open yourself up like this on a public forum, almost asking people to tell you what you already know.....

It takes less guts to open up on a forum from behind a keyboard, to people you've never met, than it does face to face, try to talk to me about this face to face and I may clam up a bit more.

I haven't even told any family other than my wife that I crashed, and I've no intention of doing so. I have a few friends on here, the closest of whom I already opened up to on the phone and he won't be surprised to read any of this. Other friends on here who I will see face to face in the next few weeks, well I have opened up to them too, but they will just get a bit more of an insight into who I am, is that a bad thing? If they decide I'm a bit of a pr1ck then that friendship was never going to get any deeper anyway, I am who I am and my friends have to accept that, just as I accept them for who they are.

I'm glad I did post the thread, whilst I was asking people to tell me what I knew, people have also told me lots of things I didn't know, and they've cast the things I did know in a different light, which is exactly what I wanted to achieve. Whenever I get stuck for a way forward at work, I get the team in a room with a whiteboard and I brainstorm with them. Four heads are better than one.

So there has definitely been value in this thread for me, and sincere thanks to everyone who has posted in it so far. I will read it all more than once and digest.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Blunt not a problem, I asked for people's opinions.

I don't think my obs is an issue, it's over confidence and attitude to risk that's an issue. Obs was entirely irrelevant to accidents 1 and 2, and in accident 3 I saw the gravel and knew I was about to hit it, but was going too quick to avoid it.

Of course obs is an issue, if you had seen it earlier you would not have taken that line at that speed.

Obs is everything. If your obs fails you cannot utilise any other facet of skill or capability. No point having best brakes in the world if you do not see and react to the hazard.

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by ophic

I always bear that in mind, no matter how bad things get, they could be worse. I could be dizzyblonde!!!!

Cheeky sod
Believe me, if you had been where I've been for the last five years, you'd wish you could travel back in time and take a very large sledgehammer to every bike in the land!
I'm just waiting for round two, when Pegs leg(and it is) takes the serious nosedive, but then I've got all the experience in the world to be able to deal as a partner when it does arrive.

I don't half pick em, people be lucky you have two proper working legs, I am. It does seem slightly on the morbid side posting stuff like this but fact of the matter is, it happens and there are consequences all along the way.