Middle class...

[Sir Trev]

Originally Posted by timwilky

The class system is no longer relevant, but does it still exist?

Only in the minds of those resentful of others who have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to better their lot and that of their children etc.

Being middle class is nothing to aspire to. Nor should it be a term of derision. I like the adoption of the phrase middle England used these days to encompass ordinary working, house owning, tax paying folk who seem to get nothing out of government yet pay in more and more.

The "class", was more a set of values. How you though and acted.

Unfortunately it does still exist and I see it a lot in the higher end of the management structures in all the companies I've worked in. Shame, as a lot of very bright and capable people never reach the heights they are capable of, just because their "face" does not fit.

I pretty much epitomise the old definition of middle class - graduate, chartered accoutant, higher rate tax payer, four bed detached house in Bucks, mortgage, wife and family, retriever, two cars and a bike. Do I feel middle class? No. Do I act it? No. I got all this through my own effort - no handouts from wealthy parents (dad was a fireman), local comprehensive school and technical college, paper round and other part time jobs teaching me the value of money. I like to think I get on well with anyone and everyone and as I'm not interested in ruling the world I know full well that people starting out now will overtake me at some point and become my boss so never take an "us and them" attitude.

It can be very hurtful when people use the phrase middle class as if it is something to be ashamed of. If it's perceived jealousy of some form or politicised propaganda it is even more hurtful. There is a world of difference between people who had it all handed to them and those that made it themselves.

Tim mentions Middle England. This is a definition I don't mind in the slightest and is way more appropriate in this day and age.

An interesting point from Bri W, when I went to the above establishment out of the 6 engineers in my year/college only one went to a public school. I'm not sure how much it depends on the college/subject or even the tutors doing the interviewing. When we questioned our tutors later on in the course on why they had accepted us they said that we were all academically able, but on top of this they thought they would enjoy tutoring us, it wasn't just based on grades that had been acheived, or that they expected us to acheive at University.

I think trying to apply the old class system is meaningless to modern society.

Myself I'm state school educated to parents who were interested in my upbringing and who worked hard to afford a comfortable home life. Did I benefit from this situation? - Yes. Did I work hard when it mattered at school and Uni and later? - Yes, so I'm comfortably off. Am I going to apologise for this, no

What class am I? I don't care/don't know and don't give a flying f*ck what class people think I am. I have friends from all walks of life and am happy getting on and enjoying it.

BTW I'm working today, so I think (therefore I am) working class

PS I'm having smoked salmon for lunch

[dizzyblonde]

YA posh git, is it in sandwiches with cucumber, with no crusts?

Quite partial to a bit salmon myself!

In a sandwich with salad and horseradish! Crusts intact as I want curly hair.

The class system does exist today, but not in the traditional sense as it was when I was growing up, it's prepetuated by what some people preceive themselves to be.

For example, my sister came down from the Glasgow area for a visit th eother weekend & we were talking about our old schools. She has 2 girls of primary school age. She still lives in our old town but her daughters go to a neighbouring primary school, not our old one. When I was a kid our old primary school was by far the best in the town, although closely followed by the one her kids go to. Apparently our old school has a rife bullying problem & not just with the kids.

A factory was pulled down & the site turned over to housing & there are now 2 fairly new & modern sites of homes. My sister has friends whose kids do go to our old primary school & there are a few families who are very much of the "what car do you drive", "where do you ski", "where do you holiday" etc.

It's very much a case of "Little Johnny" (who you would expect to have been the old fashioned class bully) now being picked upon by little Mercedes-Chardonnay because his parents don't (or can't afford) to go ski-ing at half-term; or little Torquil picks on him because Johnny's dad has a 9 year old Ford Focus while his parents use a Prius for the school run to obviously save the planet while the weekend car is a Lexus 4x4 thyingy-ma-bob worth 4 times what Johnny's dad earns in a year.

Originally Posted by grh1904

It's very much a case of "Little Johnny" (who you would expect to have been the old fashioned class bully) now being picked upon by little Mercedes-Chardonnay because his parents don't (or can't afford) to go ski-ing at half-term; or little Torquil picks on him because Johnny's dad has a 9 year old Ford Focus while his parents use a Prius for the school run to obviously save the planet while the weekend car is a Lexus 4x4 thyingy-ma-bob worth 4 times what Johnny's dad earns in a year.

I had to read that twice over, was wondering why I'd not heard of a Merc Chardonnay car and about to look it up before realising you were talking about a girl

Bullying is rife because of the whole class situation, it's sickening. I never went on holiday as a kiddywinkle, I didn't wear Reebok and Kappa in my spare time, or graffiti bus stops with Y2K was 'ere... I put my head down, got on with my work and cursed my mum solidly for making me wear a floral dress on my first day at one of my primary schools...back when uniform wasn't compulsory and too dear anyway....

Do I care in retrospect? Nope, it made me what I am today, and far stronger a person for it. Yet I wouldn't choose that for my children if I had them. So how would they end up being like? Makes me shudder to think.

I had to wear my female cousins' cast off clothes. I still don't think that I've recovered from that!

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by grh1904

It's very much a case of "Little Johnny" (who you would expect to have been the old fashioned class bully) now being picked upon by little Mercedes-Chardonnay because his parents don't (or can't afford) to go ski-ing at half-term; or little Torquil picks on him because Johnny's dad has a 9 year old Ford Focus while his parents use a Prius for the school run to obviously save the planet while the weekend car is a Lexus 4x4 thyingy-ma-bob worth 4 times what Johnny's dad earns in a year.

Its funny, I've just picked son no1 up from a residential weekend away for kids that are 'gifted and talented'. It was a free weekend run by a local high school.
I said to one woman, 'I do hope they didn't spend a lot of time outside as Dylan suffers in the cold'.
Her reply was 'well hes not going to do too well in December when he goes on our school residential',
I said 'hes not going, I'm not paying £120 for a weekend when hes just done something similar for free', she started muttering about paying 400 quid for her daughter to go on some holiday with her school, and not being able to afford, to which I said, we kids never went on big costly school trips, everyone else went skiing and other places, we stayed at home, went away with girls or boys brigade, which was far cheaper, and we're probably better off for it.


Dylans hoping to go to grammar school, I'm hoping he'll benefit from it, hes going because hes bright academically, not because I want to keep up with the Jones's.
I aren't looking forward to grammar school trips.....and the cost, maybe he won't notice if he doesn't go, and the other kids won't see him as some second class citizen and get bullyed for it....I have heard of such.