Tottenham Riots

[MisterTommyH]

They might not have the same feeling of entitlement though Tam.

There were so many statements trying to justify what was going on which blamed it on the fact that they had closed down the youth clubs and that there was nothing to do around there - one of the people interviewed on the news saying this was 24. He seemed confused when the news reader pointed out that at 24 a lot of people were keeping themselves busy providing for their families, not looking to be entertained by the state.

[Bri w]

Originally Posted by Tommy H

They might not have the same feeling of entitlement though Tam.

There were so many statements trying to justify what was going on which blamed it on the fact that they had closed down the youth clubs and that there was nothing to do around there - one of the people interviewed on the news saying this was 24. He seemed confused when the news reader pointed out that at 24 a lot of people were keeping themselves busy providing for their families, not looking to be entertained by the state.

you're not wrong Tommy.

I hate saying "in my day..." but in my day, where I lived we didn't have a yoof club. 'We' seem intent on making excuses for what at the end of the day is a section of society that has no respect for what isn't their's - and I don't just mean the physical belongings.

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by Tommy H

They might not have the same feeling of entitlement though Tam.

There were so many statements trying to justify what was going on which blamed it on the fact that they had closed down the youth clubs and that there was nothing to do around there - one of the people interviewed on the news saying this was 24. He seemed confused when the news reader pointed out that at 24 a lot of people were keeping themselves busy providing for their families, not looking to be entertained by the state.

I get that, but ****holes have always existed and they are responsible for their own ****holery.

Laying the blame on socialism lets them off the hook in exactly the same way as the poverty/disaffection argument does.

Originally Posted by Sally

I need to see this video haha

here you go

[Stingo]

A few short weeks ago a senior member of the armed forces made statement about how long operations could be maintained in Libya. The primeminister made a statement with words to the effect of "you do the fighting, I'll do the talking". It is possible some of you may recall this. Source linky here... http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassi...-talking.thtml
As I understand things, the current levels of police manning are about to be reduced as part of the current round of spending cuts on public services. I for one would like to see the chief of police say to the PM "You do the talking, let us do the policing".
I know this is a simplistic view of things and the whole issue is certainly far more complex, however wouldn't it be nice to see someone bite back at those who constantly seem to be of the opinion that we should all do more with less?
just my two bobs worth.

[Sid Squid]

Originally Posted by TamSV

But to try and lay what we've seen recently at the door of some self-propogating socialist conspiracy is a bit of a stretch.

No, it really isn't a stretch at all. Bear with me while I make my meagre attempt to explain what I mean.

You may have noted in my prior scribbles that I have not mentioned Socialism, always 'socialism', there is a a chasm of difference, they are not the same at all. Socialism may, (note; may - it's far, far from certain), once have had some merit, but any merit it might claim as a political process has long since been lost. It may seem ridiculous to mention the Blair/Brown years and any variety of Socialism in the same sentence, but that's the banner under which those particular people sold their party to the populace, however even if their's is the most extreme destruction of what Socialism might have been, it differs from other incarnations only by degree, not fundament or result.
There may still be some intelligent persons who consider themselves Socialists, those that haven't realised that any Socialist ideal they may cherish cannot and will not ever be realised, their efforts will always be subverted by the cheats who coak themselves in the flag of Socialism whilst actually being either self interested, (Blair, Livingstone), authoritarian (Brown, Balls), or both, (Harman either Milliband, Smith - too many to mention). Genuine Socialists that attempt to promote their hopeful, (and mostly well intentioned), vision of synthetic societal 'fairness' will never succeed, there's always a charlatan only too ready to buy votes with a vision of a responsibilty free and rights filled lowest common denominator, a nirvanic vision that appeals to the unthinking, the infantile and those who do not or cannot envision the reality that nothing comes for nothing, that their failure to gain either societal or material success can always be blamed on the 'elites' who do, and the bill for redress can be laid at the feet of those who try to succeed. The only surprising thing is that so many Socialists are apparently unable/unwilling to see the 'socialists' for what they really are - a subconciously turned blind eye as they do manage to get the Labour Party votes perhaps?

Socialism is the charlatan's politic of choice, of course despite their protestations their version is 'socialism' - that's a certainty. This and this alone has given us the culture of entitlement that led to the vile scenes we saw last week. this situation is an inevitability of 'socialism' which is, always is, and always will be, the result of Socialism.

[maviczap]

Originally Posted by Stingo

I know this is a simplistic view of things and the whole issue is certainly far more complex, however wouldn't it be nice to see someone bite back at those who constantly seem to be of the opinion that we should all do more with less?

Same in my lot, do the same (or more) with less. Doesn't work like that, lots of stuff falling off the end, not getting done.

Very frustrating for the staff

[Sid Squid]

Originally Posted by Stingo

however wouldn't it be nice to see someone bite back at those who constantly seem to be of the opinion that we should all do more with less?

It's not a matter of opinion - umpteen billions were wasted in a flagrant and transparent attempt to prop up the left's vote, it would be better if we hadn't been forced to economise by the actions of the thirteen wasted years from 1997 onwards.

But that happened and now we must deal with it, we are in the circumstance of having to make difficult decisions on spending, that's not a matter of opinion - it's harsh and unwelcome fact, but fact all the same.

[yorkie_chris]

Would I sound like a complete c*ck to suggest that we won 2 world wars by doing more with less and getting on with the job, and to suggest that people try being a little British about it and apply a stiff upper lip and a resolutely cheerful attitude?

Cash doesn't fix everything, look at the NHS.

[anna]

I think I´m right in saying that everyone is in agreement here that the recent events are indeed a complex set of situations that have arisen. To say that these people were acting out of mere criminality is certainly an over simplification. I certainly believe this was like any situation something that has many factors and many opportunities happened to allow it to take place.

The question now is not only to try to understand those issues, but to put in place some sort of preventable measures for the future. Certainly wont be a quick solution, as it appears there are deep routed issues at play here.

I think it is wrong to look into our own pasts and use the line "in my day" we aren’t living in those times, and these youngsters haven’t grown up in those circumstances.

The attitudes of these people have been fostered by our society and their environment, over many years. Kids have grown up, raised by kids; they have a sense of righteousness and selfishness that is inherent in all youth.

There have been clear messages of hypocrisy in our judicial systems, our monetary policies that those at the top are treated with a greater leniency then those on the bottom rungs. People at the bottom looking up have a very different view then the people at the top looking down.

I certainly understand the need for cuts up and down to stop the bleed of the economy, however a fairer look at those at the top might ensure that those at the bottom aren’t feeling the hand of hypocrisy strike them again.