Chinese execution

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Jabba

My view:
Why do we think we have the right to lecture other governments about human rights? We're not exactly squeaky-clean ourselves...... invading Iraq on fabricated "evidence" in a dodgy dossier, turning a blind eye to extraordinary rendition from the UK by the US, CCTV cameras watching our every move (legal or otherwise), keeping names of innocent people on criminal databases, compiling a database of the affairs of every new born child in the country...

Originally Posted by Jayneflakes

stuff

Nothing personal, just a dig at the amnesty/reprieve/hippy lot in general. But cheers for the bite

With the above things going on right here in 'ole blighty, it seems like rather the easy option to spend time criticising a government when you are what 4000 miles away from it's borders.

Originally Posted by Jabba

Mental illness covers many things, from mild depression to full-on schitzophrenia and more. No one would suggest that someone with mild depression shouldn't travel. However, the point that some are trying to make is that if he was as mentally ill as his supporters are saying, to the point where his sentance should be influenced, then he shouldn't have been travelling alone. Maybe a member of the family for support and guidance?

I get what you're saying but I don't think it's that easy.

A friend of mine has a relative with quite severe bipolar disorder. Througout her youth, her 20s and early 30s she seemed fine. She was finally diagnosed when her behaviour changed in her late 30s.

What I'm getting at is this guy may have been bipolar and it been left undiagnosed (especially as he was no longer living at home with family). The fact that people were suggesting to the Chinese authorities that he may have had the condition should never have been ignored.

Originally Posted by ArtyLady

I get what you're saying but I don't think it's that easy.

A friend of mine has a relative with quite severe bipolar disorder. Througout her youth, her 20s and early 30s she seemed fine. She was finally diagnosed when her behaviour changed in her late 30s.

What I'm getting at is this guy may have been bipolar and it been left undiagnosed (especially as he was no longer living at home with family). The fact that people were suggesting to the Chinese authorities that he may have had the condition should never have been ignored.

I do agree with you to an extent but for his family to say he was suffering from a mental illness then it must have been diagnosed at some point. That said if it had been diagnosed then it would have been on his medical records... and unfortunately it wasn`t.

[Bri w]

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

I understand the point you`re making Bri but was this man thinking of his children when he risked his life by smuggling the heroin? was he thinking of his childrens future? as a drugs dealer and the manager of several "unscrupulous" businesses did he stop to consider that he was putting his children at risk?

I`m not saying it was right to execute him but he should have put his children first.

He may well be a selfish father, with no thought for what he's put (putting) his children through but that doesn't stop us from being compassionate about his children and what they went thro' in the run up to his execution.

I used to be all for the death penalty, and was definitely one of the hang 'em high brigade, especially in special circumstances. I read a book written by an inmate on death row. It spoke about the waiting, about the clock watching of time ticking down. And it spoke about his children, and their clock watching. Of knowing he only had hours to live. Then there was a stay of execution. Then the appeal failed and the clock watching began again. The final chapter was from his children, post execution. It was totally, horrendously harrowing.

The death penalty may satisfy elements of society, and the victim's family but the damage to the convicts family is immense and goes on for years.

Lock 'em up for life. Have them doing hard labour to help cover their keep, and contribute back to the society they damaged.

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

I do agree with you to an extent but for his family to say he was suffering from a mental illness then it must have been diagnosed at some point. That said if it had been diagnosed then it would have been on his medical records... and unfortunately it wasn`t.

Yes but people and family recognised the fact that he behaved strangely when they knew him - maybe he hadn't been diagnosed because he had ended up living rough in Poland (so I read) and all those factors should IMO have been enough to allow for the psychiatric assessment.

I think people have overlooked the fact that this man was arrested and detained for this crime in 2007. In the 2 years he was in prison his family (including children) did not visit him nor did they have any contact with him. Suddenly in the last week after his fate was announced they suddenly make an effort! They complained that the Chinese did not allow a mental health assessment... why did they not push for this when he was first caught and charged if they were so concerned. I'm sorry, but i think the family left it a little too late to show they were in anyway interested in his fate. Call me cynical but I bet they could make a pretty penny from their story to the papers and just maybe this had something to do with their 2 year too late plea for clemency.

It`s all too easy to hide behind the mask of mental illness when caught for committing a crime... many have done it in this country and got away with it. In the 2 years he was in prison he formed good relationships and actually learnt to speak Chinese, if he was as seriously mentally ill as his family claim then I doubt very much he would have been able to do this. He used the claim I didn`t know what I was doing because it suited him! I doubt he would have used that claim if he had made it thru Chinese customs and sold the Heroin on for vast sums of money! "I did not know what I was doing, why I am I getting all this money" ... call me cynical again but I dont think so!

Originally Posted by ArtyLady

Yes but people and family recognised the fact that he behaved strangely when they knew him - maybe he hadn't been diagnosed because he had ended up living rough in Poland (so I read) and all those factors should IMO have been enough to allow for the psychiatric assessment.

His family hadn`t seen him for 3 years so I would dispute their opinion of his mental health status.

Okay you win I'm outta here

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

I think people have overlooked the fact that this man was arrested and detained for this crime in 2007.

I think most of the media did to. Must have been a slow news week or lack of anything else to hype up or for the Government to jump on the bandwagon off as well...

Wow, I go out for a run and all hell breaks loose.

Spidey and Jayne, you are both right. There are so many other human rights abuses, both at home and abroad, it's really so painful that here we are almost in 2010, 65 years on from WW2 and yet we seem to have learned nothing.