Brakes! - Train your brain! - Teaching granny to suck eggs!

Anyone seeking some advanced training would do well to contact their local bod from this mob. A number of my friends from elsewhere have done weekends with Dave Corden and really rate his teaching and advice.

http://www.advanced-motorcycle-train...k/Trainers.asp

[DJ123]

can this be edited and stickified?

Originally Posted by Lozzo

I read Roadcraft many many years ago when a friend's father lent me his copy (he was a traffic copper). It's one of the most useful pieces of literature I have ever taken time to read. Much of what is shown and written about comes down to common sense and forward thinking.

The IAM won't ever see me joining for three main reasons:

1) I don't like the "holier than thou" attitude displayed by far too many of their members, especially when I see their crash rates and compare them to my own.

2) I don't believe that riding to their system is a good way to do something that requires instinctive reaction and adaptable thought processes. Riding a bike should not be done in a robotic fashion with a system of instructions continually being ticked off in your mind as you ride, as taught by the IAM - it should be something that you do without even thinking about, leaving your mind clear to take in everything around you and react accordingly.

3) A few years ago I did a Bikesafe day. All the copper I had with me could really pull me up on was that I continually broke the speed limits outside of 30 and some 40 zones, but never did I put myself or anyone else in any real danger. Obviously 30 odd years of riding and reading Roadcraft had given me that self preservation instinct required.

In all honesty, if I was forced to ride as the IAM or ROSPA would like me to, I'd probably hang up my helmet for good - I wouldn't enjoy one minute of it.

All well and good Lozzo but please don't knock people who are only trying to help other people stay alive, and continue to enjoy their passion safely. I too would reccommend Roadcraft to anyone, after all it is produced by the police federation and teaches the system that police riders are taught by. While there are some IAM observers that have a holier than thou attitude I have not met any and if associates do not take to an observer they can always ask to be put with another. While your riding may be perfect with an excellent crash rate the statistics are that generally IAM trained riders are 70% less likely to have an accident. (Insurers statistics).
The system we teach is exactly the same as in Roadcraft (IPSGA pg 30) and is the same as police riders ride to, does that make all police motorcyclists robots as well?. Forward thinking, observation and planning are all parts of the system.
Obviously you are never going to join any training and that is fine, for you, but having followed and observed and trained a fair few riders now I know that most people would benefit from advanced training.

Daryl.

Originally Posted by darylB

All well and good Lozzo but please don't knock people who are only trying to help other people stay alive, and continue to enjoy their passion safely. I too would reccommend Roadcraft to anyone, after all it is produced by the police federation and teaches the system that police riders are taught by. While there are some IAM observers that have a holier than thou attitude I have not met any and if associates do not take to an observer they can always ask to be put with another. While your riding may be perfect with an excellent crash rate the statistics are that generally IAM trained riders are 70% less likely to have an accident. (Insurers statistics).
The system we teach is exactly the same as in Roadcraft (IPSGA pg 30) and is the same as police riders ride to, does that make all police motorcyclists robots as well?. Forward thinking, observation and planning are all parts of the system.
Obviously you are never going to join any training and that is fine, for you, but having followed and observed and trained a fair few riders now I know that most people would benefit from advanced training.

Daryl.

My riding is far from perfect because I frequently break the speed limits and will overtake on double white lines where I can see the road is clear for the length of my projected overtake.

I do advocate advanced training for everyone, but my view is the IAM system is not the way to go. Police training and IAM training are not the same, I got that nugget of information from the man who trains police riders in Bedfordshire on one of his frequent visits to our shop. They may both use Roadcraft as a basis for their instruction, but the similarity stops there.

We're deviating from the general tone of this thread, so I'll stop here.

[Bibio]

you can teach a monkey how to use a typewriter but what it types will not be legible. same goes for rider training, all the training in the world wont make someone a better rider if they have not got what it takes in the first place. you can teach someone the basics and advanced riding up to a point, after which it's down to the individual.

panic. is the biggest culprit of crashes and some people can't stop themselves from doing so no matter how much training you give them.

lack of discipline. a lot of riders seem to think that the roads are their own private race track or have not been told/shown the basics of proper road positioning. the biggest culprits of which are those that are taught during track days and try to implement the same rules on the road. this usually results in the rider 'white lining'.

excitement. motorcycles are fun and fast but there are far to many people out there that think they know how to control a motorcycle at speed when if fact they are nothing but a passenger along for the ride.

pride. there are far to many riders out there that think they know best so don't listen to advice when given by more experienced riders. in fact a lot of people take offence.

*walks into thread, bangs several heads together*

THERE.

Right, now thats out of the road....

Can we please stop arguing about who can and should and shouldn't and maybe should and definately couldn't give advice?! This is not the point of the thread. Ralph, correct me if I am wrong, was trying to offer a bit of experience and encourage people to practice emergency braking in particular. It is pretty unoffensive advice and to be honest, I can't understand why this has kicked off.

Also, Daryl, Lozzo. See you two and your IAM arguments?! They are boring. We know you like IAM Daryl and Lozzo, we know you don't. There is no need to argue with each other over it everytime it is mentioned!!!!!!!!

So, long and short of the thread:

Go out and practice emergency braking and such like if you wish to. If you don't, then don't.

The end.

Well said MBK - some of the arguments are new, and still feel like they're getting old.

I'd like to expand on the main point though - it's not just braking where you need to train your brain, as I think someone said earlier. When it comes down to it, our brains were designed for a maximum speed as fast as you can run, so even the urban speed limit is twice as fast as the design speed of a human.

[Bibio]

reaction times have a lot to do with how you deal with a given situation. by the time some people realise that there is something wrong then its usually to late to rectify.

for a giggle try this test. you may have done it before at school.

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/rulerdrop.htm

GOOD THREAD ....

enjoyable 30 mins reading that folks..

[Old Git]

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

I've learnt the most important thing about cornering too, and that's SLOW DOWN!

Don't do them as fast as you could do them, leave yourself a margin for error, some grip in reserve, and so never make it a panic situation in the first place.

Now thats the most sensible thing I have ever heard you say.!!!

Nothing to see hear, move along now