Electric Vehicles

[Luckypants]

Originally Posted by Ruffy

By my calculation, based on a quick google search, a Tesla electric car battery is around 80-100kWh, so that's c. 8-10kW power demand required for a full overnight charge (keeping maths simple, assuming 10 hours duration). Add that up for multiple vehicles and there is a huge demand, especially when you compare to current typical average levels. If each vehicle is broadly equivalent to 3-4 houses, then it becomes clear that many concurrent vehicle charging loads of that or more do present a big problem for electricity supply industry at local distribution level.

Unless a property has 3-phase, the maximum wall charger draw is 7.5kW, limited by regulations AFAIK. 3-pin draw is 2.4kW? Most cars maximum AC draw is 11kW (only 3-phase again) but some can pull 22kW - so there are practical limits.

Your point on local infrastructure struggling with a street full of cars pulling 7.5kW is well made though. My village with its 1950s overhead cables and ancient transformers will no doubt suffer problems when we are all charging our cars.

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by Luckypants

Unless a property has 3-phase, the maximum wall charger draw is 7.5kW, limited by regulations AFAIK. 3-pin draw is 2.4kW? Most cars maximum AC draw is 11kW (only 3-phase again) but some can pull 22kW - so there are practical limits.

You may be right about the regulations, I didn't research that far. Domestic 3 pin limit is c.3kW (13A at 230Vac nominal rms) though a commonly available industrial 'blue' single phase 32A plug and socket on dedicated circuit could allow 7.4-7.5kW. Perhaps that's the technical basis for the chosen regulation?

Originally Posted by Luckypants

Your point on local infrastructure struggling with a street full of cars pulling 7.5kW is well made though. My village with its 1950s overhead cables and ancient transformers will no doubt suffer problems when we are all charging our cars.

Credit where it's due, it was Dave20046 and then timwilky who made the point originally.

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

The simple fact is that there was no wind, very often in winter in UK we get stuck in a high pressure area where the isobars are social distancing - some of the coldest weather is during highs as no cloud cover ...

Yes understood and I know it does happen - wind is a variable source, that's why you need a lot of turbines spread out throughout the country and offshore if you want anything like predicatble overall supply capacity at naional level (that will be noticeably lower than total connected machine capability).

I was more wondering if some windfarms were constrained off i.e. paid not to generate because there's surplus, cheaper gas or other baseload supply available that's not as easy to switch off. You'll no doubt be aware of the 'shock' style press headlines that have appeared in the past but it's just a quirk of the balancing market with variable supply & demand and the fact that large scale electricity storage is not prolific.

Originally Posted by SV650rules

Today only about 13% supplied by wind, 0.5% by solar and the rest by gas fired power stations ( what a waste ) nuclear, biomass cables across channel and even about 7% by coal fired stations.

Gas is still cheap globally but burning it (or biomass for that matter) doesn't attract the bad press of 'dirty' coal. I agree it's not great but I guess money rules - selection of generation is still decided by economic factors, not moral ones.

I was surprised at the gap when checking my own home supply bills last month, so much so that I even stopped briefly to consider swapping out my electric kettle for a stovetop one! (It turned out 1kW electricity was almost 3 times the price of 1kW gas for my usage - though build-up is skewed a bit by daily standing charges on my contract - it's not as simple as per-unit price differences so more analysis required.)

[Luckypants]

[Dave20046]

Just got this in my inbox

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/mot...ble-to-afford/

Obviously the cost should come down in the coming years.

Originally Posted by Ruffy

Credit where it's due, it was timwilky who made the point originally.

I thought it was the point that kicked this whole thread off

[Luckypants]

They are expensive and thats the biggest problem for consumers IMHO. Its certainly the bit that's holding me back. I think legacy car makers want to see a return on their investment at a speed they would with a normal ICE car amd fail to allow for the costs of converting to electric to be recouped over a longer time frame. Tesla only recently started to make profits and they have been building EVs for 10 years.

I think they think of a number they believe early adopters will stomach and then add on the value of any incentives available. It would be better for UK customers to negotiate a price prior to the PICG and then claim the grant afterwards. That way the "OTR" prices advertised would be more like the list prices and any grant is a bonus. Right now all EV prices are advertised with the grant taken off. I'm hopeful they become more affordable to owner-dirvers in the next 2-3 years, otherwise we are waiting for the lease market to start releasing second hand ones.

[ethariel]

Before the 2030 deadline, production lines will have to radically adapt to build a wider range of EVs in a profitable way, while the UK’s charging network will need to grow exponentially to cater for demand.

Hahahahahaha! - Why?

When the deadline hit's, it's EV or public transport....why on earth would the manufacturers take a hit on profits for something people just 'HAVE' to have?

Additionally 2nd hand sales of EV will in all probability be fairly unrealistic in many cases as by the time you are done with it, the 5-20k battery pack is in all probability shagged out (end of life) anyway.

[Grant66]

Originally Posted by Dave20046

Just got this in my inbox



https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/mot...ble-to-afford/



Obviously the cost should come down in the coming years.







I thought it was the point that kicked this whole thread off

You're assuming that the government want personal transport for everyone and current methods just need translating from petrol to electricity.

There are several different scenarios for the future.

If vehicle ownership is unaffordable then rental systems will increase. Why buy a depreciating asset if you don't need it every day?

We may be looking at a world where if I need to get from A to B I'll tap my app, an autonomous vehicle will arrive, take me to B. I don't need to worry about buying it, maintaining, parking or charging it.

Is it as convenient as what we have today? No.


We need to stop thinking about the future as an extension of the status quo and consider alternatives to mass individual vehicle ownership.


Sent from an S20 using Tapatalk with that kin cr4p blocked

[garynortheast]

Originally Posted by Grant66

.
We need to stop thinking about the future as an extension of the status quo and consider alternatives to mass individual vehicle ownership.

Absolutely this, well said Grant. The status quo in many areas of society at the moment, is not a viable option for the future continuity of life, particularly mammalian life on this planet tbh.

[redtrummy]

On Tuesday in brilliant sunshine the other half and I went for a bike ride. She on an electric bike due to arthritis. As we peddled along with her zipping up the hills there was me thinking that an e-bike could be the solution to overcrowded polluted roads. Today as I sit in the lounge with the rain and sleet hitting the patio window I have probably changed my mind!


I think in the future we will be curtailed one way or another re mobility. Either that or the world human population will have to reduce significantly.