How messsed up is this?!

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by carty

I haven't seen that bit Chris, where is it?

It's possibly on the bbc site, I've read it somewhere. I think the sentencing's backwards taking into consideration everything that happened.

On a slightly off topicness I wonder if the muslim community have slated mr hussain, I think it's frowned upon to be violent during ramadan. Wondered if the mail dropped that in there to stir things up.

[CheGuevara]

The updated article I read this AM (was probably on the BBC) stated that he had 50 (prior?) criminal convictions. If Hussain knew that at the time he probably would (should) have beat him harder.

If law won't protect the law-abiding public (as it clearly hasn't in this case) then perhaps there needs to be allowances for the public to take matters into their own hands. Seriously, 50 criminal convictions and he walks free on a conviction this serious?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me fifty times...

Originally Posted by CheGuevara

The updated article I read this AM (was probably on the BBC) stated that he had 50 (prior?) criminal convictions. If Hussain knew that at the time he probably would (should) have beat him harder.

If law won't protect the law-abiding public (as it clearly hasn't in this case) then perhaps there needs to be allowances for the public to take matters into their own hands. Seriously, 50 criminal convictions and he walks free on a conviction this serious?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me fifty times...

That's the whole point though, Hussain isn't a law abiding citizen.

[CheGuevara]

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

That's the whole point though, Hussain isn't a law abiding citizen.

He very well might still be if the law had dealt with Salem properly say by conviction number 20 or 30...

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by CheGuevara

The updated article I read this AM (was probably on the BBC) stated that he had 50 (prior?) criminal convictions. If Hussain knew that at the time he probably would (should) have beat him harder.

If law won't protect the law-abiding public (as it clearly hasn't in this case) then perhaps there needs to be allowances for the public to take matters into their own hands. Seriously, 50 criminal convictions and he walks free on a conviction this serious?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me fifty times...

Dont forget that even the jury in the case would not have been given this info before they made thier judgement.

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

That's the whole point though, Hussain isn't a law abiding citizen.

Apparently he was till he was provoked and pushed over the edge, no?

[CheGuevara]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Dont forget that even the jury in the case would not have been given this info before they made thier judgement.

He was convicted though -and would the judge not have had it for consideration during sentencing? If not then I believe we have uncovered the flaw :P

[CheGuevara]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

If you think the US has either of these things mate you're in cloud cuckoo land!

I'm no flag-waving fan of the US (having lived next door to them for most of my life), but I think freedom and safety aren't exactly what they might have once been here either (same goes for Canada as well to be honest).

Originally Posted by carty

I look at it this way; the burglars entered with knives, or at least 'a' knife. If they had any intention of using them apart from to scare it would have been during the struggle in the house, ie, they did not really intend to use a knife to cause physical harm, but merely to intimidate.

Then, the actions by Mr Hussein were pre-meditated by the fact that he stopped to pick up a cricket bat / pole / hockey stick and gave chase. He intended to cause physical harm. The law on defending your home using reasonable force does not extend to actively pursuing and beating people further down the road. Giving him a smack in the back whilst pushing them out of the front door does.

sorry Carty maybe im reading this post wrong, those 2 statements seem totally contradictory to me. if the kneif is free to be seen as only intimidation, whyis the bat any worse? I can see that in this case they caught up with teh burgular and beat him with it, but what if this wasnt thier intention? I mean what if they never acutally belived they'd catch him?

I assume the burgular would have been considerably younger than 53 or what ever mr h was. Also a Mr H who is carrying a bat and pole running after a robber. I'd put my money on the robber getting away everytime. Only this time I'd have been wrong, an so could mr h not have been allowed that same error of judgement?
Then ok, so they caught him taking an oportunity to sub-due the robber until police arrived they used the tools at their disposal. Just so happens the robber was hard as **** and put up a good fight, turns out the bloke who's almost a pensioner needed to hit him a few more times than the average athlete.

See what I mean? Its all just speculation... but its good entertaining speculaton so keep it up.

Originally Posted by CheGuevara

He very well might still be if the law had dealt with Salem properly say by conviction number 20 or 30...

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Apparently he was till he was provoked and pushed over the edge, no?

Look it's simple. Is the threat of being beaten going to deturn crims? No. Is it going to encorage crims to stab/bludgeon people if they come across them when they're committing crime? Yes.

If I come across someone breaking into my house, I want them to (in all likelyhood) run away, not come in armed to teeth ready to stab me because I've got licence to maim them.

[CheGuevara]

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Look it's simple. Is the threat of being beaten going to deturn crims? No.

I'm not sure that's necessarily true. People are adverse to pain. I believe I have read that burglars report that their biggest deterrent is a dog -it's not beacause they think they're gonna get slobbered on. I would bet that most burglars commit their crimes believing that they won't get caught, nevermind smashed in the face with a bat, or attacked by a dog.

On the other hand Salem is walking free after 50 criminal convictions -so clearly doing nothing has not persuaded him