One For Peter Henry

I think you also have to judge a rider on the the level of competition he faced.

I mentioned Hailwood before and that guy was up against some real greats.

Rossi has beaten some good riders but not really great ones. I mean if you look at his great strength in the last few years it has been that he has been consistent. Think of the riders that have beaten him (prior to Hayden this year) and you will see that yeah every now and then they beat him in race but come the next round they are no where! The likes of Max, Melandri and Sete only ever seemed to perform in one round out of every four so they would beat Rossi and then you wouldn't see them again for a month!

He hasn't really had any competition from riders that are up there and on the ball in every round.

Originally Posted by Toypop

I think you also have to judge a rider on the the level of competition he faced.

That's a fair point - same really holds for Schumacher. But it's rather unfair in that even if these people did have good competition, they'd probably still do very well.

Steve...No worries mate I wasn't offended at all. I have to reiterate that many think that I have some kind of downer on Valentino which is far from the truth. I do not though view all he does through a rose tinted visor!

I wish I had memories of the likes of Ago, Hailwood,Phil Read, Geoff Duke and others in their prime as again although it would still be subjective comment. I would be able to have the benefit of witnessing others who had been heralded as "The Greatest".

I would though stick my neck out and class George Formby as the best ever privateer!

Whether he is "the Greatest" or not is a difficult one to answer. However his ability to do amazing things on a motorcycle is sometimes beyond belief.

Look at the UK GP a couple of years ago, a complete wash out, he comes from behind and then for a few laps puts on better than 2 secs a lap to open an amazing lead, and go on and win. How many times have we seen him come from the back end of the grid to take a podium, or even win ? Some of the moves he has made, to get on the Yamaha and win in his 1st year....

He is truely gifted, but the best ever ? That's hard to say....

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Originally Posted by Toypop

I think you also have to judge a rider on the the level of competition he faced.

I mentioned Hailwood before and that guy was up against some real greats.

Rossi has beaten some good riders but not really great ones. I mean if you look at his great strength in the last few years it has been that he has been consistent. Think of the riders that have beaten him (prior to Hayden this year) and you will see that yeah every now and then they beat him in race but come the next round they are no where! The likes of Max, Melandri and Sete only ever seemed to perform in one round out of every four so they would beat Rossi and then you wouldn't see them again for a month!

He hasn't really had any competition from riders that are up there and on the ball in every round.

Does the utter drivel you post ever have any kind of basis, ever?

2004, Sete was fast and consistant and kept Rossi on his toes right up to the second to last race of the season.

Flamin, big Sete fan by any chance? What about poor old Max?

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Does the utter drivel you post ever have any kind of basis, ever?

2004, Sete was fast and consistant and kept Rossi on his toes right up to the second to last race of the season.

Sete had the better bike with Rossi having just moved to the Yamaha team that had won naff all for ages! Imagine if Schumacher had beaten Damon Hill to the title in 1996 after moving to Ferrari, even if Damon had kept him honest it would have still be an embarrassment. So I'm sorry but 2004 was the year Sete should have won it but proved he was not world champion material, not blowing Rossi away that year was shameful.

Sete has been proven again and again to be a mental weakling who cracks under pressure and throws it away.

Toypop...I am sure there were some niggling mental issues with Sete in respect of Valentino, but to suggest he was a complete mental basket case is far from true I believe.

So how inferior really was the M1 once Rossi and Burgess had given it a good looking over before the Italian began to race it? Not that far behind the Repsol bikes in truth. Add to that the "x" factor that Valentino has and as proven you have a winning combination.

You conveniently forget that Sete's challenge which saw him runner up in 2003 and 2004 was carried out when riding a satelite machine which was not full factory spec....not far behind most likely but it definitely was not a full spec bike.

The difference between the full spec bikes and those offered to Honda customers was a bone of contention which HRC refused to address and this was the main reason that Sete left to sign for Ducati.