Toyota Prius, transport, and the future.

I share your sentiments there. I too have found many prius drivers to be arrogant and unreasonable road users, often driving with more blinkers than your average caged monkey and they seem to be profoundly deaf too (they dont seem to hear when I am alongside...)

I had a conversation with maria a while back, arguing the point that the amount of energy it must take to create a prius must be more than for the average car; I also figured that it is far more energy-saving to maintain your 5 year old yaris than for toyota to make you a new prius

I'm all for energy saving, but I think its small changes (like not taking short journeys in the car as said in the OP...I know many people who will drive rahter than do the same journey, on foot, and take 10 mins instead of 2 mins) that will help reduce our emissions. keeping a vehicle well serviced and maintained will also help reduce emissions. I like the technology being peddled by BMW and VW, incorporating low-friction materials and other things to get a good efficent vehicle.

As a side-discussion, motorcycles - whilst somewhat efficent, have a long way to go to match the efficiency of a car. Our oil needs changing more frequently, for the engine size we use alot of fuel, our tyres don't last as long. I was wondering how possible it would be to have direct injection motorcycle petrol engines, as this can improve efficiency. 2-stroke engines lend themselves to this wonderfully...the orbital 2-stroke engine is really efficient and realyl clean. I just wonder when the technology will be applied to the manufacture of large capacity engines

matt

How viable is hydogren fuel cell at the moment? Is there not two problems with this form of fuel? One that when the government should be pouring money into this kind of things we drop bombs instead to fight over whats left off the oil.

Second how to produce enough hydrogen? The hydrogen-oxygen bond from what I understand is strong, thus requires alot of engery to actually produce the hydrogen. Where do we get that one from? I do find frustraining that hygrogen fuel cell technology isn't talked in the general press and people are lead to like the above car, is the answer?

You can clearly see public transport isn't gonna work, look at the tube spends most of the time during week broken, close it at the weekends to fix it. Opens Monday am, breaks just as the rush hour kicks in. Well done TFL, you are about useful as that dam car

Oh it had reversing cameras wow! You know I heard some where they came about casue americans got so fat, they couldn't turn to look behind when they tried to park. But americans don't really drive anyway, ever seen LA in the rush hour

[BillyC]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

What was the cost of the car?

I would put money on the fact that you will lose more in capital costs and depreciation (and fuel!) than you will ever save in tax.

Oh and when your prius is out of warranty, god help you!

By modern standard, perhaps the "cost" of the Prius, is not so obvious. The true cost is not the road tax you pay, based on the misguided weighting of emissions; but the cost that was invested to build it, set up its manufacture; its economy to drive every day, and it's recycling costs.

Traditional cars have quite a low cost in the grand scheme of things, although this does seem to have risen. But the Prius must take the prize for the most stealthy of costs of manufacture and recycling. It must totally wipe out it's day-to-day footprint which is probably embarrassingly similar to that of any other car with a similarly sized engine.

[yorkie_chris]

not much of a rant, true. All the "environmental cost" (#spit, goddamn hippy term...#) of your old landy is well and truly paid by now, and at what cost? A couple of mpg. Compared to these spastics who buy the newest "best mpg" (rofl), they save a gallon of fuel over the year, the car "cost" 200 gallons of fuel to produce.

P.S have you seen the South Park episode "smug"?

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by metalmonkey

How viable is hydogren fuel cell at the moment? Is there not two problems with this form of fuel? One that when the government should be pouring money into this kind of things we drop bombs instead to fight over whats left off the oil.

Second how to produce enough hydrogen? The hydrogen-oxygen bond from what I understand is strong, thus requires alot of engery to actually produce the hydrogen. Where do we get that one from? I do find frustraining that hygrogen fuel cell technology isn't talked in the general press and people are lead to like the above car, is the answer?

Because the press completely miss simple logic. It takes MORE energy to produce the H2 than you release in the car by burning/oxidising it.

Exactly the same issue as those damn-hippy electric cars, you are just making a "longer tailpipe" as one US engineer put it. You are just shifting the emissions elsewhere.

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by metalmonkey

Second how to produce enough hydrogen? The hydrogen-oxygen bond from what I understand is strong, thus requires alot of engery to actually produce the hydrogen. Where do we get that one from? I do find frustraining that hygrogen fuel cell technology isn't talked in the general press and people are lead to like the above car, is the answer?

Conservation of Energy mother****er

It requires at a minimum the same amount of energy to split the Hydrogen and Oxygen as you will get back when you combine them

In real life you won't get anywhere near 100% efficiency

Hydrogen is an energy storage medium, not a fuel, it's like a battery, you still have to produce the energy in the first place...

[ophic]

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

Hydrogen is an energy storage medium, not a fuel, it's like a battery, you still have to produce the energy in the first place...

Cos with a fuel the energy comes from magic? I think not.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by ophic

Cos with a fuel the energy comes from magic? I think not.

But, but, but the guy in the poncho said it was "clean energy dudddde"

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by ophic

Cos with a fuel the energy comes from magic? I think not.

Well durrr

Within the timescales were require manufacturing more oil isn't a viable option, for the purposes of this discussion the potential energy stored within oil can be considered as a finite resource that just is and that will run out when we've used all of it

Of course if you want to trace everything right back you're going to have to explain how the energy within the universe was created at the sigularity we call the big bang, explain that bitch

[BillyC]

Originally Posted by Alpinestarhero

As a side-discussion, motorcycles - whilst somewhat efficent, have a long way to go to match the efficiency of a car. Our oil needs changing more frequently, for the engine size we use alot of fuel, our tyres don't last as long. I was wondering how possible it would be to have direct injection motorcycle petrol engines, as this can improve efficiency. 2-stroke engines lend themselves to this wonderfully...the orbital 2-stroke engine is really efficient and realyl clean. I just wonder when the technology will be applied to the manufacture of large capacity engines

You're absolutely right, and I wondered if someone would make this point.

A good efficient petrol car, albeit a small one (more relevant when comparing with motorbikes), might achieve 45mpg. The bike will probably do something similar - but it's half the size.

The oil change is a good point... but on the other hand, an SV (for example) will use 4.5 litres of oil over a 12,000 mile period. A small engine car will use something similar in that period too, perhaps twice as much if changing oil every 6,000 miles.

But, what motorbikes really have going for them, is that they'll achieve their 40mpg in town, where cars will struggle to achieve 30 or even 25. They'll complete their journies quickly and efficiently, cutting through congestion in ways that car drivers just can't understand.

However, I once drove an old 1 litre Peugeot 106. Even in congested traffic, doing my 25 mile journey to work, I average well over 55mpg over the months that I drove it... and that includes all the sitting in traffic. It wasn't anything special, but I don't know many bikes, or cars that could match that.