EU climate cash pledge 'not enough' say small nations

Couple of things to consider, climate change happens anyway, wether we are carbon neutral or not, its cyclic, it happens naturally.
In the 1600's in london, there was a severe frost in june, 10,000 years ago there was an ice age in this country.

Also, at last count, we produce 0.2% of the worlds carbon emissions so all the efforts to use electric cars or stop cows farting wont make the slightest difference until the big culprits cut huge amounts of their polutants.

Countries like china, india, japan etc will not cut their emissions to a acceptable level because they dont give a toss about the environment.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by anna

Understandable concern however, it is in the poorer nations that have those imense jungles and forests that in order for them to continue to make a living they carry on destroying them.

Which they will undoubtedly continue to destroy however much danegeld is paid. Too much corruption, and we unfortunately do not own a third of the globe any more to influence such things.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by beabert

Nothing has changed just because a small minority of scientists are bad, same as every other proffesion.

Research will never be pure. A climate study commissioned by greenpeace (PLC) will always find in favour of global warming. They're all businesses needing to turn a profit, and greenpeace et al won't get lots of retarded doo-gooders on their side without some good ol-fashioned propaganda!

Originally Posted by specialone

Countries like china, india, japan etc will not cut their emissions to a acceptable level because they dont give a toss about the environment.

They are busy having their own industrial revolutions (well Japan has had theirs and are well ahead of China and India).

Originally Posted by beabert

Nothing has changed just because a small minority of scientists are bad, same as every other proffesion.

that was just the cherry on top of the mountain my friend who's gonna volunteer to stick a catalytic converter on the sea anyone

[anna]

Originally Posted by specialone

Countries like china, india, japan etc will not cut their emissions to a acceptable level because they dont give a toss about the environment.

I agree that climatic changes have always occurred (it is summed up in its name) and goes in cycles, I also agree with the fact that we have no way of really knowing at this point where we are in that cycle because our data has only been collected for such a short span of time.

I would say though that it is inevitable that we have made an impact on those climate changes, and probably not for the best, the damage that has been done may be irreversible, but it doesn´t stop us looking for alternatives to some of the devastating things that we are doing to our environment.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Which they will undoubtedly continue to destroy however much danegeld is paid. Too much corruption, and we unfortunately do not own a third of the globe any more to influence such things.

Again very valid points, however, does this mean as one of the richest and highest regarded countries, should we turn our backs on these issues just because others have??

Or should we not be the first ones to put our hands up to help and do something to stop an undisputed problem, set an example and hope that we are able to encourage others to do the same?

[timwilky]

Ok, before entering into any further debate, I declare an interest, I work for Alstom (google it if you do not know it). Any opinion I express is my own and perhaps my bosses may think me a heretic.

Firstly I am all for reduced energy demand in this country. Better more fuel efficient homes/businesses. Bring our aged stock of homes upto modern standards. (spend money in Britain, to improve Britain, done by British workers).

Heresy time. I would like to see more work done on using larger fuel cells to provide local heat and power solutions in our cities, large housing estates etc. They are efficient, do not require the distribution overhead of traditional coal/gas power plant and waste heat is reused for domestic/industrial heating etc.

I know my company is also working on carbon sequestration etc. I would like to see government funding to push this further. If we can become world leaders in these technologies then Britain can preach to the rest of the world and show them the way forward. But saying to a country, you must not burn your local coal, that keeps local miners working, but import gas from half way round the world. when you are a poor 3rd world country because it is cleaner isn't going to be listened too. (Ok some in this country thought that was a good idea before Britains gas supply started to run out)

[yorkie_chris]

Not at all, BUT we're in the doo-doo. Comrade Brown appears to think he can pull money out of his bottom. Send some of the royal engineers along with some civil and mechanical engineering professionals to show these lot how to build hydroelectric powerplants on a small scale. Plenty EASY technology that doesn't cost a fortune or need high levels of investment!

And we're bloody skint! HMG is borrowing beyond its means. Comrade Brown has only today overruled his darling Darling on reducing spending...

A wise man said a government trying to tax its way out of recession is like a man stood in a bucket trying to lift himself up with the handle.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by timwilky

Heresy time. I would like to see more work done on using larger fuel cells to provide local heat and power solutions in our cities, large housing estates etc. They are efficient, do not require the distribution overhead of traditional coal/gas power plant and waste heat is reused for domestic/industrial heating etc.

Cool idea, but I fear it would need too much investment for the waste heat pipes.

Originally Posted by anna

I agree that climatic changes have always occurred (it is summed up in its name) and goes in cycles, I also agree with the fact that we have no way of really knowing at this point where we are in that cycle because our data has only been collected for such a short span of time.

I would say though that it is inevitable that we have made an impact on those climate changes, and probably not for the best, the damage that has been done may be irreversible, but it doesn´t stop us looking for alternatives to some of the devastating things that we are doing to our environment.

Anna, i have no doubts that we are contributing to the effects of climate change and as the human race we need to take action to try and control it.
How much we can do and will it affect a naturally occurring event is anyones guess.
Plants, as im sure you are aware are very good for eating all that lovely carbon up so i think long term your comments about lesser well off contries needing help to stop them cutting down trees etc and not ruining their own environments is a valid point.
If we can plant more carbon loving plants then that will help im sure.

But, as yc said some of the major players in the emmissions game are going through fast industrial growth so wont halt that just when they are getting going for the sake of a 1 or 2 degree temp rise.
These are the same people who think nothing of eating a family pet or clubbing a dolphin to death.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by specialone

These are the same people who think nothing of eating a family pet or clubbing a dolphin to death.

I say, what frightful savages.