Self Combusting Rectifier - just caught it.

[mikerj]

The GSXR rectifier/regulator is a common swap for the fragile SV ones, sounds like the previous owner has suffered a similar problem at some stage...

I personally have never had an issue or had a customer that has had an issue with the reg/rec on any year of SV650. I certainly wouldnt say the SV reg/rec is fragile by any means. More likely the problem is over charging and you ideally need to check the charging system properly, ie ensure the genny isnt causing an issue before swopping out to any other make of reg/rec as swopping make wont cure a problem with the genny!.

Charging system check first!

I'm in agreement with the cold voice of reason that is SV650Racer.

I bought the bike from a dealer in the area and he has a lot of broken bikes out back for which he may / may not have swapped it off one of these (i'm not accusing anyone here). But regardless of that something earlier in the chain is knocking out the rf and it all seems to points to the alternator / gen.

There has been a history (within my ownership) of electrical problems on this bike. From killed batteries. Indicator bulbs where the contact point lead(Pb) looking burnt / flatened. Was doing the classic fast flashing indicator or only the front bulb flashing. Solved once I'd filed / refreshed the contact points on all 4 bulbs.

I know from my youff and old bangers that when it comes to alternators you just have to stump up the cash for that reconditioned unit if you want to save yourself a load of hassle.

Saying that I did carry out a £12 carbon brush (off ebay, guy in scotland) replacement on my VW Passat windscreen blower recently. VW where asking £180 for a replacement unit. Ca-Ching!

Q: Could it be my style of riding, lots of short sharp, high revs acceleration, i'm not the most conservative rider ?

Q: How involved is the gen replacement, is it under the oil filling hole, round plate thing ?

Genny is under the left hand case cover. Fairly straight forward to do. Wont be anything to do with riding style.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by SV650Racer

I personally have never had an issue or had a customer that has had an issue with the reg/rec on any year of SV650.

More likely the problem is over charging and you ideally need to check the charging system properly, ie ensure the genny isnt causing an issue before swopping out to any other make of reg/rec as swopping make wont cure a problem with the genny!.

Normally I have a lot of respect for your opinions but I have to disagree with you here on a fundamental level. As I think you're giving a backwards view on the situation.

a) I have seen lots of reg rec failures on the SV which I have personally verified to be the reg rec at fault with no other charging system issues evident upon direct and repeatable testing.

b) How can a generator issue result in overcharging? The SV genny is pretty robust, it's dead simple and gives a 3ph output. What conceivable fault here could cause overcharging? Shorting to earth would result in undercharging.

OTOH, reg recs can and do cause (well, allow) overcharging by not regulating properly. Mine did, it was supplying 18V to the battery, which not much of the bikes electrics enjoyed very much. Replaced the reg rec and the genny is still going strong 20K+ later.

I agree with checking the generator*. It's easy to do without taking the casings off though.

*And other associated wiring, scrub any corrosion off or even wire the new reg direct to the battery for enhanced reliability. Simple = Good. Modern and good quality MOSFET regulators like CBR are also good.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Normally I have a lot of respect for your opinions but I have to disagree with you here on a fundamental level.

a) I have seen lots of reg rec failures on the SV which I have personally verified to be the reg rec at fault with no other charging system issues evident upon direct and repeatable testing.

b) How can a generator issue result in overcharging? The SV genny is pretty robust, it's dead simple and gives a 3ph output. What conceivable fault here could cause overcharging? Shorting to earth would result in undercharging.

OTOH, reg recs can and do cause (well, allow) overcharging by not regulating properly. Mine did, it was supplying 18V to the battery, which not much of the bikes electrics enjoyed very much. Replaced the reg rec and the genny is still going strong 20K+ later.

I agree with checking the generator. It's easy to do without taking the casings off though.

I said "I personally" and therefore in my opinion I find them to be pretty robust. Now GSXR600 06 is another matter, have changed plenty of those even on 2 mile old bikes. So all in all the SV650 rate of failure I have seen is very low or non existant from what I have seen. Neither have we been asked by anyone to purchase a OEM or aftermarket Reg/Rec. I have sold plenty of Honda ones

Over charging can and will cause a reg/rec to fry itself. I only stated about running a test on the genny as alot of people dont, will just replace the reg/rec when in fact the genny also has a problem.

Maybe my wording wasnt clear - i often type in between doing something else..and its a fact women cant multi task!

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by SV650Racer

Over charging can and will cause a reg/rec to fry itself.

This is what I disagree with (testing the genny is a good idea just to check).

Overcharging is caused BY the reg rec.

Rectifier = make 3 phase AC from genny into smooth DC
Regulator = control voltage down to 14.2 from the 50V plus from the stator.


Sort of genny we have on SVs is 3 phase permanent magnet type, aye?

So, this generator is a bit of a daft lump, it puts out a voltage based on what rpm it's spinning at. It charges at full whack all the time. It's not like the old GSXR's or a car with a separate field coil to control voltage.
Thus, since it's always charging at full capacity for that rpm, it physically cannot overcharge anything.

Simply, if your charging voltage is too high, the regulator has failed and that is that. No other part of the system has any part in keeping the voltage down. (voltage too low is another matter)



If you have a different understanding of charging systems I'd be glad to hear it and revise my own ideas.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

This is what I disagree with (testing the genny is a good idea just to check).

Overcharging is caused BY the reg rec.

Rectifier = make 3 phase AC from genny into smooth DC
Regulator = control voltage down to 14.2 from the 50V plus from the stator.


Sort of genny we have on SVs is 3 phase permanent magnet type, aye?

So, this generator is a bit of a daft lump, it puts out a voltage based on what rpm it's spinning at. It charges at full whack all the time. It's not like the old GSXR's or a car with a separate field coil to control voltage.
Thus, since it's always charging at full capacity for that rpm, it physically cannot overcharge anything.

Simply, if your charging voltage is too high, the regulator has failed and that is that. No other part of the system has any part in keeping the voltage down. (voltage too low is another matter)



If you have a different understanding of charging systems I'd be glad to hear it and revise my own ideas.

If the reg rec isnt working properly and not regulating the voltage properly it can fry itself. I wasnt relating it to any other part of the system other than to suggest checking the genny as part of the fixing it process is a good idea. Im not the techy person, Steve is but this is my bare bones explantion of it that doesnt confuse a customer that often doesnt even know what a reg/rec is let alone the fact their bike has one.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by SV650Racer

More likely the problem is over charging and you ideally need to check the charging system properly, ie ensure the genny isnt causing an issue

Originally Posted by SV650Racer

If the reg rec isnt working properly and not regulating the voltage properly it can fry itself. I wasnt relating it to any other part of the system other than to suggest checking the genny as part of the fixing it process is a good idea. Im not the techy person, Steve is but this is my bare bones explantion of it that doesnt confuse a customer that often doesnt even know what a reg/rec is let alone the fact their bike has one.

That first bit there is what caused misunderstanding i.e you saying genny issue could cause reg failure poss including a fire.

Anyway, misunderstanding is rectified


On a more philosophical level, it's not right to simplify a point when that can gloss over a pivotal detail, if someone doesn't understand it you just have to take longer to explain. Then again you know what I think of people who get their bikes serviced at main dealers

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

That first bit there is what caused misunderstanding i.e you saying genny issue could cause reg failure poss including a fire.

Anyway, misunderstanding is rectified


On a more philosophical level, it's not right to simplify a point when that can gloss over a pivotal detail, if someone doesn't understand it you just have to take longer to explain. Then again you know what I think of people who get their bikes serviced at main dealers

TBH ive tried explaining in detail and if I cant I get Steve to do it..99% of people then stare at you with a eyes glossed over look and you can see its going straight over their heads. Most just want to know its getting fixed.