return to work getting screwed (help)

Play your cards carefully Dave and don't make any snap decisions. I was going to say no knee-jerk reactions - bad joke eh

You don't have a right to the identical job but you will have a right to return to similar work, full time. They haven't dismissed you on grounds of capability - they should have done. Seems to me that you are being made redundant by the back door. Do you want to be made redundant? How much would you get, in terms of redundancy pay, pay in lieu of notice and so on? And would you find another job quickly?

[punyXpress]

From Bri w - post #5:
there may be a case for constructive dismissal.
NOBODY leans on dp with impunity!

CD sounds all too easy, but it's actually very hard to make out a case. It requires the employer to behave in such a way that it is in fundamental breach of contract, so much so that you can't accept the change. And do you really want to walk out saying 'I've been CD'd', wait months for a Tribunal date, and then have the Trib tell you 'by walking out you resigned, there was no CD'? Much better to have a letter of dismissal, that way you don't have to prove that you were dismissed.

If there is a poss of redundancy then much better IMHO to wait to be made redundant and then say that you were unfairly dismissed on the grounds on unfair selection for redundancy. But even that isn't easy, as long as the employer acts 'within the range of reasonable responses' the Trib won't interfere. And a sick record of 18 months off is going to put you high up the list, even though it wasn't your fault.

Dave - go get specialist advice from an employment lawyer.

i will have a chat throuhg with my Mrs tonight, she is HR Manager for quite a large firm (not sure who you work for but they also sound quite big) dont be scared of HR dept, previous post saying they are only there for management to a load a bull, yes they are there to help management, but they are also there to help you. they have a legal obligation toward you as an employee.

Agreed that you shouldn't have telephone conversations, do everything with email/letters, if you do need a telephone conversation, document it, when ware you were, what was said etc.

As far as my understanding goes, if you were off work due to medical reasons and signed off by doctor they are in there rights to get someone in to cover your job of course, but they also need to be able to give you the job back upon your return.

At the same time however, i think if they feel that you are no longer able to do the job to the best of you abilities due to injurys i think they can go down the redundancy process, however again at the same time, if they are trying that they need to be able to offer you another job within the company as they have not got rid of your job, but just replaced you with someone else.

Something is definatly not right with what they are doing. I was off work for a year ill when i worked for Abbey National, and of course they replaced my job, but as soon as i was ready they gave the the job straight back!

Hope it all works out mate, but as i say i will run it through with the Mrs tonight.

What are you contracted hrs out of intrest? is it the 40pw?

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by Sally

You sound like you have confidence in HR departments? Really?

Not really, but thats always the first port of call when you have a greivance with at work that your manager has failed to deal with correctly...

[Biker Biggles]

Originally Posted by Biker Biggles

A couple of points
The HR (Human Remains)department is an arm of management so dont take everything they say as gospel.They are there to advise managers on employment law.

Thats what I actually said about HR.And I stand by it.They are not there to help the employee.I didnt say to be scared of them,just to understand who pays them and what they are for.

[Bri w]

Originally Posted by Ed

CD sounds all too easy, but it's actually very hard to make out a case. It requires the employer to behave in such a way that it is in fundamental breach of contract, so much so that you can't accept the change. And do you really want to walk out saying 'I've been CD'd', wait months for a Tribunal date, and then have the Trib tell you 'by walking out you resigned, there was no CD'? Much better to have a letter of dismissal, that way you don't have to prove that you were dismissed.

If there is a poss of redundancy then much better IMHO to wait to be made redundant and then say that you were unfairly dismissed on the grounds on unfair selection for redundancy. But even that isn't easy, as long as the employer acts 'within the range of reasonable responses' the Trib won't interfere. And a sick record of 18 months off is going to put you high up the list, even though it wasn't your fault.

Dave - go get specialist advice from an employment lawyer.

I'm no expert Ed, thats your domain. I was basing it on DP leaving because the reduced hours that have been enforced upon him making it untenable financially.

A do know of a big multinational that unoffically called it the sickening process, i.e. make the employee so p!$$ed off they ended up leaving.

But you are right, no 'elbow jerk' reactions, and find someone versed in Employment Law.

I'd advise you to get your contract together with every piece of written correspondence you've had from your Company since the accident. If you've had verbal communication, write it down now before you forget it. Record in detail whats happened since returning to work. When you talk with HR, and if you get a bad vibe from the meeting, make sure they commit to sending you minutes of the meeting after and sending you it for your agreement within 48hours. Make sure you appear flexible in your approach to other opportunities in the company, make sure you are not confrontational. So much can depend on whether you are a full time employee or short term or long term contractor, but employee protection law is still fairly strong, especially if they have been paying you sick pay while you were off. Get good advice from a solicitor who specilaises in this area. Try to be optimistic HR usually do, but do not always favour management, they are always paranoid about long drawn out legal debates as it is always expensive, so you may be lucky with HR especially if you are open and flexible. Be optimistic things can change quickly in larger companies, it only take a resignation or movement of jobs somewhere else in the team and you'll be back in before you know it. Good luck.

well my god fizz your right HR are not the antichrist

phonecall today (48 hrs after email sent) HR were unaware i wished to return to full time hours,
which is why they had not tried recruiting of my post to fill it(the part time one) or that i was fully fit, nor i was wanting to go back to my normal work

phone call from our operations boss (after hr call) went like this

they are getting me 38hrs 1 week and 50hrs the 2nd ,working 6 days 1 week, 7days week 2, just till they fill my place here, after that a full time place on another site

they will make this happen asap but no longer than 2/3 months till im on a steady 4 day (4x12hrs) shift at 1 site,
this was all in conferance with me to make sure i was happy to do the long weeks (id work 365 happily if required ) tbh anything to get my hrs back

and it seemed there was some bemusement to how things were dealt with at this end, it seems that they were also out of the loop

finally hr want me in on tuesday of a hearing for me to explain some of the issues i raise more throughly, ,dont know what that means exactly i am hoping its to dress down my line managers more than have a pop at me but as long as i get my hours back they can say what the feck they want to me, ive big shoulders.

cheers for the advice as usual it was very helpfull, when i get home i'll stick up the email i send (redacted version) and i would appreciate some feedback on that, or any advice about tuesday is welcomed

cheers again
dave

Good news mate

Does this mean u'll be writing on the forum less?