Any dog experts/dog whisperers on here?

She has been taking him training where "he is a completely different dog" now I suspect this is due to the fact that she is confident in front of the trainer, then comes home and mothers him because he has done well.

We have told her lots of times about little things that she does, but sadly it took something like this to wake her up.

Simple thing like, not leaving their food out. Eating her food first before giving them theirs, making them sit and wait for their food.

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by krhall

She has been taking him training where "he is a completely different dog" now I suspect this is due to the fact that she is confident in front of the trainer, then comes home and mothers him because he has done well.

We have told her lots of times about little things that she does, but sadly it took something like this to wake her up.

Simple thing like, not leaving their food out. Eating her food first before giving them theirs, making them sit and wait for their food.

Yep...and dogs will react to the confidence of other people around them as well.

Training and behaviour are very different things though. You can have the most obedient dog in the world still have a whole host of behavioural problems.

We've all seen programmes like Cesar Milan Dog Whisperer...and massive changes can be made with methods like that. I have adopted lots of them with mine, but I don't agree with programmes showing these methods, especially methods involving physical discipline like putting a dog on the floor.

If you have a dog that has bitten or shown signs of aggression, the wrong person trying thses methods can get very badly hurt and that is why I would never advise anyone at home try anything like that.

It is really difficult learning to ignore your dogs, but it really does make a difference. With all the feeding tricks, not letting them walk through doors in front of you, not letting them on the furniture etc...the key is consistency.

If after a week, your mum is desperate for cuddles, that is fine, but there has to be a degree of working for that even. So...when they have been exercised and fed (always in that order) and ignored for a while, then she can have cuddles.

So, for instance, if the dogs come over to your mum and want cuddles, they don't get them. They can't learn that the get to dictate when they get attention. Your mum needs to ignore the dogs until they go off and lie down by themselves. If they lie down at your mums feet, she should move her feet and not allow them to dictate even that contact. She must make herself completely independent of them. Only when they give up trying and go and lie down and relax somewhere else should your mum call them over for a cuddle. If she lets them lie down for more than 5 minutes, they will be relaxed and she can call them over and dictate that attention. Then, after a short period to start with, say 2-3 minutes, she should get up and walk out of the room and ignore the dogs again or if she is confident, send them away and ignore them again. So it is your mum that says when the attention starts and when it ends...not the dogs.

Prepare her though...they will use every cute face and doey eyed look they can to keep trying to get her attention. Best thing is to just fix her eyes on the TV or a magazine and pretend they don't even exist.

Doing this with our rescue dog can be so funny....she will actually throw a tantrum after a while. It is not really funny as it is a show of how anxious she is...but when she gets the message, she will go and actually relax. Something that does not come easily to her with her issues and brain damage.

Originally Posted by gruntygiggles

especially methods involving physical discipline like putting a dog on the floor.

If you have a dog that has bitten or shown signs of aggression, the wrong person trying thses methods can get very badly hurt and that is why I would never advise anyone at home try anything like that.

And the worms spring out of the can

I wouldn't suggest any physical discipline on an internet forum either, and knowing what types of physical discipline is effective with dogs is also vital, but I do get annoyed with namby pambys that say you should not physically discipline dogs. If a dog was being disciplined by it's pack leader it the wild, it would be getting bitten. The important thing is that a canine pack leader would be using a form of physical discipline that the dog understands.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

The important thing is that a canine pack leader would be using a form of physical discipline that the dog understands.

PS: And also uses it in appropriate measure, it has no emotion, no agenda, only instinct.

[Fallout]

Did anyone see that dog whisperer guy on tele? The american one? He could even tame aggressive dogs. He would physically dominate them, as they would each other in the wild. This one dog was snarling all the time and biting. He literally pinned it down, while getting bitten apart, wrestling it until it finally submitted and accepted it was beaten. From then on, it was a different dog.

I don't think anyone's lil old mum can use those techniques, but from watching that, I would say 99% of dogs, even if they are really aggressive, can be put in their place. You just have to remember they are an aggressive animal and they can't listen to reasoning as a child can. They only understand dominance and fear. That's not to sat your dog should be afraid of you. It shouldn't. It should trust you, but be afraid of what you're capable of. For most dogs, a stern voice or some body language is enough, but some need that physical domination before they learn that lesson.

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

And the worms spring out of the can

I wouldn't suggest any physical discipline on an internet forum either, and knowing what types of physical discipline is effective with dogs is also vital, but I do get annoyed with namby pambys that say you should not physically discipline dogs. If a dog was being disciplined by it's pack leader it the wild, it would be getting bitten. The important thing is that a canine pack leader would be using a form of physical discipline that the dog understands.

Absolutely agree, I also don't go for the namby pamby approach. I just don't think there is any point in people without the right experience, confidence or attitude attempting it themselves.

I think dogs need to learn what is and isn't acceptable which is why we have to be consistent and sometimes, in the right hands, that means a physical consequence as that is what they will understand if done the right way.

Many cans of worms could be opened here

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by Professor

Some dogs just cannot be trained. My dog, Terry, is an example.
We've had him since he was a two month old puppy and he has been
biting us (+ other people + attacking horses + killing cats,
badgers, fish etc) ever since. We've kept him on the leash since he
turned one year old and we never allowed small children to visit our
house.

The good news is that they normally calm down with age. Terry is now
14 and the only person he really goes for is the postman. Grabbed
the postman's pants this December when my wife was giving him (the
postman) his Xmas present. Fortunately, our postman has excellent
reflexes so no blood was spilled on that occasion.

Here is Terry' photo from when he was younger:

Originally Posted by Fallout

Did anyone see that dog whisperer guy on tele? The american one? He could even tame aggressive dogs. He would physically dominate them, as they would each other in the wild. This one dog was snarling all the time and biting. He literally pinned it down, while getting bitten apart, wrestling it until it finally submitted and accepted it was beaten. From then on, it was a different dog.

I don't think anyone's lil old mum can use those techniques, but from watching that, I would say 99% of dogs, even if they are really aggressive, can be put in their place. You just have to remember they are an aggressive animal and they can't listen to reasoning as a child can. They only understand dominance and fear. That's not to sat your dog should be afraid of you. It shouldn't. It should trust you, but be afraid of what you're capable of. For most dogs, a stern voice or some body language is enough, but some need that physical domination before they learn that lesson.

It is his programme I was talking about. He knows what he is doing. There are many that disagree with those methods, but there is no arguing that dogs understand that. It is just very hard for the average person to know what dogs need what kind of physical correction and more importantly, that there is ZERO feeling behind it. It is extremely hard for an owner to do this kind of thing without having some form of emotion behind it and you have to be completely calm and relaxed for the dog to respect what you are doing. Also, those techniques are where inexperienced people can get very badly bitten, dogs made more fearful or aggressive and a situation a whole lot worse which is why I would only advise getting a professional in if that is what your dog needs.

But yes...I agree that pretty much all dogs can be helped. For example...and I don't know what was tried with Terry, pictured above, but a dog that pulled that face while on the furniture would be instantly banned from getting anywhere near being able to get on furniture in my house. I would find that totally unacceptable and the dog would be put right to the bottom of the pack. No discussion, no breaks or sneaky treats and no being intimidated by it...it would be off the chair and in its place straight away. I wouldn't let that dog leave make a move without me telling it what that move should be. That is how they learn their place. You take away their ability to make their own decisions.

Terry pulled that face because we were telling him to go to the
garden to have a pee before he goes to sleep for the night. For many
years we had to wrap him in a blanket when taking him out for his
evening pee - just to avoid being bitten.

And yes, we tried a dog whisperer type person. When Terry was young
we lived in the Brighton area and there was a woman in our village
who could communicate with dogs and control them. We used to leave
Terry at her house for training purposes. The woman ran a sort of
kindergarten at her house, and Terry loved that woman and loved
staying at her house. Unfortunately, it didn't change Terry's
behaviour: he just controlled all the dogs (even huge ones) in that
"kindergarten". Whenever we came to pick him up, he didn't want to
leave but other dogs (not ours) were begging to take them away. And
once we met our neighbour's dog in the street and he started
crawling towards Terry on his belly, acknowledging his inferiority,
and all because they happened to spend a day together in the
"kindergarten".

And we tried slapping Terry for while, with no effect whatsoever. He
just loved a good fight. If he was prepared to fight horses (with
riders on them!!!) and getting smacked on the forehead with a hoof
(loads of blood!), it is not surprising that he didn't mind getting
slapped.

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by Professor

Terry pulled that face because we were telling him to go to the
garden to have a pee before he goes to sleep for the night. For many
years we had to wrap him in a blanket when taking him out for his
evening pee - just to avoid being bitten.

And yes, we tried a dog whisperer type person. When Terry was young
we lived in the Brighton area and there was a woman in our village
who could communicate with dogs and control them. We used to leave
Terry at her house for training purposes. The woman ran a sort of
kindergarten at her house, and Terry loved that woman and loved
staying at her house. Unfortunately, it didn't change Terry's
behaviour: he just controlled all the dogs (even huge ones) in that
"kindergarten". Whenever we came to pick him up, he didn't want to
leave but other dogs (not ours) were begging to take them away. And
once we met our neighbour's dog in the street and he started
crawling towards Terry on his belly, acknowledging his inferiority,
and all because they happened to spend a day together in the
"kindergarten".

And we tried slapping Terry for while, with no effect whatsoever. He
just loved a good fight. If he was prepared to fight horses (with
riders on them!!!) and getting smacked on the forehead with a hoof
(loads of blood!), it is not surprising that he didn't mind getting
slapped.

Yeah, I used your picture as an example...that kind of face would get an immediate action from me.

Sounds like he is a very strong willed little man, lol. I do still think most issues can be dealt with but it is also true that some dogs have a much stronger sense of desire to lead than others.

Those dogs just need a really strong (mentally) owner to be on top of it at all times.

PS. The furniture in the photo is actually Terry's, so there's no
crime in him sitting there. When we bought him (as a puppy) we gave
him a 3 piece suite (garden furniture). OK, we didn't buy the 3 piece
suite specifically for Terry: it was already in the conservatory and
we told him to sleep on this 3 piece suite, which he did.

PPS. As to the other 3 piece suite, the one allocated to humans
(myself, Mrs Professor and Miss Professor), Terry would get onto it
only when Mrs Professor was away: he would jump onto Mrs Professor's
sofa, thus indicating that he is now in charge (as Mrs Professor's
deputy).

PPPS. I believe that I am sufficiently strong as a person. When I
was Head of Department my Dean and my Provost always cracked jokes
at meetings, comparing me with Joseph Stalin. Still, I could not
control Terry.