ABS demonstration, on an SV no less

[Paul the 6th]

sounds similar to the offroad day in letting the bike sort itself out if it hits a bump/obstacle etc. "grip the tank with your knees, relax your grip on the bars and let the bike do whatever it needs to" they had us locking the front wheel for 5-6 feet at a time without falling off, albeit on dirt.

Guessing the electraglide was your own bike and not theirs?

Yes, it was my 'Glide. 6 or 8 of us did it. All on Harleys. Quite amusing.

that video is bullcr*p i did the mc1/3 course on my 03 sv so had no abs locked up twice when doing the braking excerises (in the wet) and yes its was'nt the most comfortable thing but i learnt a better technique even though i consider myself confident on the brakes it was great to understand the feeling of locking up i did'nt fall its was very small but i did feel the front start to fold both times. but if i had abs i'd never have felt that and never learnt a key fundamental to understanding the limits of my bike in what we consider tricky condidtion on the road.
so if i had the choice i'd rather not have abs its more of a personal thing from riding 125's when learning and mx bikes i've never had abs and i've learnt to use the brakes properly something that i feel i would'nt of done if i had a safety net of abs.

In the past I didn't have ABS on my two SV650s, and one of those I shunted under a car's back bumper when I braked hard on a manhole cover. I consider myself very experienced and able to deal with most things having been riding shedloads of miles every year for the past 34 years, but a wet manhole cover that suddenly appears from under the car in front is enough to defeat us all.

My Versys is equipped with ABS and I'm damn glad I've got it - it's saved my sorry ar5e at least twice that I can remember. In normal riding it's taught me that I can brake to huge levels without locking up/activating the ABS even in the wet and in my opinion anyone who says they'd choose not to have it is a bloody fool.

It's a safety net in the same way as airbags in cars are. No-one rides knowing they can brake as hard as they like without locking up, it's there to help you if you do panic brake on a slippery surface. We all end up in situations where it's difficult to judge exactly how much brake is too much, so ABS stops the worst from happening if you do use that little bit too much.

[21QUEST]

In my opinion, ABS is for gals

How fast was the bike going in that video? I'm pretty sure(actually, damn certain) I could have done better than the ABS equipped bike, at same speed and condition.

An OTT movie.

...off to clear my 'inbox'

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

In my opinion, ABS is for gals

How fast was the bike going in that video? I'm pretty sure(actually, damn certain) I could have done better than the ABS equipped bike, at same speed and condition.

In a test situation where there's nothing but open space in front of you, then maybe. Consider a different scenario - there's a van in a side road and he's just pulled out in front of you blocking all escape routes, you're doing 30mph and the road is wet. On approaching the junction you saw the van, you clocked the guy behind the wheel looking at you so thought you were in the clear and relaxed a little until he came out. Would you be so confident of using just enough brake to stop without locking up then? I very much doubt it.

The likelihood is you'd have panicked because you'd relaxed and your fingers/feet were those vital few mm away from the levers, grabbed a handful of brake and felt the front starting to lock, let off the brakes a touch and braked hard again, thereby losing valuable yards of braking distance. You'd possibly have either hit the van or locked up again which means going down.

This scenario has happened to me at least twice - with and without ABS. Without I hit the van after losing the front, with ABS I stopped short of the driver's door and was able to throw a few f**ks his way.

With ABS it wouldn't matter how hard you hit the brakes, you ain't locking up and the chances of staying upright/unhurt are greatly increased. Like I said, those who choose not to have it are, in my opinion, fools.

I'd like to see an average rider outperform abs (same bikes) in the dry let alone the wet.

I'd choose abs every time.

[jambo]

If I was buying a new bike now, and ABS was an option I'd have it. No question.

Nothing of the age I own has ABS, and I manage OK without it but I've locked the front under braking a couple of times, and had circumstances been different, who knows, I might not have recovered it. I'm happy to ride all manner of bikes, but I very much doubt I could out brake an inexperienced rider equipped with ABS if the conditions were less than ideal.

Jambo

Originally Posted by Lozzo

In a test situation where there's nothing but open space in front of you, then maybe. Consider a different scenario - there's a van in a side road and he's just pulled out in front of you blocking all escape routes, you're doing 30mph and the road is wet. On approaching the junction you saw the van, you clocked the guy behind the wheel looking at you so thought you were in the clear and relaxed a little until he came out. Would you be so confident of using just enough brake to stop without locking up then? I very much doubt it.

The likelihood is you'd have panicked because you'd relaxed and your fingers/feet were those vital few mm away from the levers, grabbed a handful of brake and felt the front starting to lock, let off the brakes a touch and braked hard again, thereby losing valuable yards of braking distance. You'd possibly have either hit the van or locked up again which means going down.

This scenario has happened to me at least twice - with and without ABS. Without I hit the van after losing the front, with ABS I stopped short of the driver's door and was able to throw a few f**ks his way.

With ABS it wouldn't matter how hard you hit the brakes, you ain't locking up and the chances of staying upright/unhurt are greatly increased. Like I said, those who choose not to have it are, in my opinion, fools.

+1

I've been in many situations with AND without ABS. Let me tell a little story about it:

I was riding my curvy down a 2 lane road with a double continuous line. You're not supposed to be allowed to make a left turn (we drive on the right side of the road here, so for you brits, that's a right turn). But someone two cars in front of me decides that they're going to do it anyway. Only thing is, they're too close to the road onto which they want to turn, so they slam their brakes in the middle of the road, for no apparent reason.

Between me and them there's a large SUV, which kinda blocks my view of what's in front. I see through the SUV rather late that the moron in front has stopped and I start braking just a fraction of a second after the SUV in front of me starts braking as well.

Now, because the SUV is in fact a very recent model from Volvo, it has the latest generation ABS from Bosch. So as we're braking, he's actually braking better than I am and my 2 second gap is starting to get eaten up. We're braking down from 80kmh, so braking takes a total of about 2 seconds for just the slow down part, because the girlfriend whom I love so very much is on the back, so that lengthens the braking.

Half way through the braking, I realize I need to brake harder or I would hit the SUV in front of me. BUT I can't do it, because I don't know what the surface that comes out from underneath the SUV contains. I can't risk it, because if we travel over something that has a little gravel, I don't have the time to recover the front. So I need to look for alternatives FAST. I spot a gap between the SUV and the car next to it in the 1st lane, I check behind me and go for the gap. I make it and stop just 2m after I've cleared the SUV (that's about 6m after the back of the SUV).

Had that gap not been there, I would have surely hit the back of the SUV and that's because I knew I would not be able to react as fast as the ABS on the suv in case we would go over something dubious on the asphalt. Not having ABS took that option away from me and forced me to go to a secondary option which is not always there. I was being responsible not just for my life, but also the life of my girlfriend (now my fiance) and just couldn't afford losing
the front for a fraction of a second. It simply wasn't an option.

I had done braking practice that very weekend and knew the limits, but loaded up, with someone on the back and on unseen surface, the limits where definitely not that clear anymore.

I think the way to go is having ABS on the bike and being able to disable it for track riding, where you can clearly see what is what. Modern units weigh in at about 1.2kg (latest Bosch 9 developed in conjunction with KTM) so it won't affect racetrack performance that much.

I'm a convert and my current bike has ABS. It was definitely worth the extra expense, as a damp sleepy morning ride to work proved not so long ago (ok, it was only the rear wheel abs that kicked in, but still..).

I know that ABS on cars did not actually decrease fatality rates, but I'm positive it will on bikes, as it means not going down and maintaining control of the situation.

If for example it cost over £500 to have it added onto a £6000bike I wouldn't bother with it.
If it was a peanuts extra (£100-£200) then yeah maybe but not at the price it is now..

I have no doubt it would help in the right situation but I've been lucky so far...