Electric Vehicles - Page 22 - SV650.org

SV650rules · 28-03-21, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by admin

Could be of interest
https://scitechdaily.com/big-breakth...ious-versions/

So if the vehicle body is the battery, when the battery fails the whole vehicle body has to be replaced ? In the event of a crash the electrolyte spills out all over everything ?

Luckypants · 28-03-21, 12:11 PM

Interesting article and reflects the way things are moving.

Tesla has announced it's next move forward will be structural batteries, but nothing on the battery chemistry to make that happen (announced at Tesla battery day). VW expect solid state batteries to be available in the second half of this decade and will transition to their use in the 2030's (announced at the VW Power Day presentation). I expect the Korean manaufaturers to surprise us with innovations, like they have by going to 800V packs on the new Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5. I think solid state batteries and structural batteries will be hand in hand.

Dunno about the electrolyte, but I would think these will be solid state by the time this comes to pass. There has already been many accidents involving EVs where the batteries have been damaged, not heard of problems with electrolyte leaking. Surely the risk of leaking electrolyte is no worse than the risk of leaking petrol or diesel?

DJ123 · 28-03-21, 12:52 PM

I would imagine the Acid is a lot more corrosive and dangerous to everything it comes into contact with, more so than combustable fuels. Also, the lack of fluid would lead to a higher chance of fire & these current Lithium-Ion batteries are already a risk as the fire spreads from one pack to another with no way of stopping it - except drowning it in water for 24 hours.

Luckypants · 28-03-21, 01:11 PM

Is there acid in lithium ion batteries?

SV650rules · 28-03-21, 05:06 PM

It is the flammable and toxic lithium and the amount of energy stored in the batteries - lithium is an alkaline metal which in the presence of water can produce hydrogen gas. 400 to 800 volt battery packs in vehicles also pose an electrocution risk - firemen need to wear full self-contained breathing apparatus when tackling lithium battery fires, the fumes are very toxic. As said earlier by DJ123 it can take 24 hours to extinguish a lithium battery fire. A few years ago a grid storage battery in USA exploded, took days to extinguish and massive explosions killed four firefighters. Non of the multiple fire prevention systems worked and there was a runaway fire.

https://www.msamlin.com/content/ms-a...the-risks.html

svenrico · 28-03-21, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SV650rules

It is the flammable and toxic lithium and the amount of energy stored in the batteries - lithium is an alkaline metal which in the presence of water can produce hydrogen gas. 400 to 800 volt battery packs in vehicles also pose an electrocution risk - firemen need to wear full self-contained breathing apparatus when tackling lithium battery fires, the fumes are very toxic. As said earlier by DJ123 it can take 24 hours to extinguish a lithium battery fire. A few years ago a grid storage battery in USA exploded, took days to extinguish and massive explosions killed four firefighters. Non of the multiple fire prevention systems worked and there was a runaway fire.

https://www.msamlin.com/content/ms-a...the-risks.html

Sounds as though it could be a bit dodgy for electric vehicles involved in collisions then !

Seeker · 29-03-21, 06:52 AM

One of the earlier problems with Li batteries was dendrite formation. These were crystal-like growths on one electrode which would pierce the membrane separating the electrodes and the subsequent short circuit would cause a fire - remember the battery issues with the Boeing 787 introduction? If a battery pack gets mechanically pierced in an accident the same thing can happen.

On the other hand if a car petrol tank gets pierced there's a risk of fire, too.

Seeker · 29-03-21, 10:05 AM

Switched reluctance motor. No, I hadn't heard of them either, they don't use rare earth metals:
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/br...152144501.html

Luckypants · 01-04-21, 07:53 AM

It had to come I suppose....

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...l3QxmEByQ0WS6Q

Craig380 · 01-04-21, 07:58 AM

It's one of the better ones I've seen so far

28-03-21, 12:11 PM	#212
Luckypants Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nr Ruthin Posts: 7,056	Re: Electric Vehicles Interesting article and reflects the way things are moving. Tesla has announced it's next move forward will be structural batteries, but nothing on the battery chemistry to make that happen (announced at Tesla battery day). VW expect solid state batteries to be available in the second half of this decade and will transition to their use in the 2030's (announced at the VW Power Day presentation). I expect the Korean manaufaturers to surprise us with innovations, like they have by going to 800V packs on the new Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5. I think solid state batteries and structural batteries will be hand in hand. Dunno about the electrolyte, but I would think these will be solid state by the time this comes to pass. There has already been many accidents involving EVs where the batteries have been damaged, not heard of problems with electrolyte leaking. Surely the risk of leaking electrolyte is no worse than the risk of leaking petrol or diesel? __________________ "Your Viffer sounds like it is raising hell! Spot on." - Witchery 17/4/08 Snow Plough Appreciation Society - Member #3

28-03-21, 12:52 PM	#213
DJ123 Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 3,245	Re: Electric Vehicles I would imagine the Acid is a lot more corrosive and dangerous to everything it comes into contact with, more so than combustable fuels. Also, the lack of fluid would lead to a higher chance of fire & these current Lithium-Ion batteries are already a risk as the fire spreads from one pack to another with no way of stopping it - except drowning it in water for 24 hours. __________________ BMW F800ST

28-03-21, 01:11 PM	#214
Luckypants Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nr Ruthin Posts: 7,056	Re: Electric Vehicles Is there acid in lithium ion batteries? __________________ "Your Viffer sounds like it is raising hell! Spot on." - Witchery 17/4/08 Snow Plough Appreciation Society - Member #3

28-03-21, 05:06 PM	#215
SV650rules Member Mega Poster Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Shropshire UK Posts: 1,363	Re: Electric Vehicles It is the flammable and toxic lithium and the amount of energy stored in the batteries - lithium is an alkaline metal which in the presence of water can produce hydrogen gas. 400 to 800 volt battery packs in vehicles also pose an electrocution risk - firemen need to wear full self-contained breathing apparatus when tackling lithium battery fires, the fumes are very toxic. As said earlier by DJ123 it can take 24 hours to extinguish a lithium battery fire. A few years ago a grid storage battery in USA exploded, took days to extinguish and massive explosions killed four firefighters. Non of the multiple fire prevention systems worked and there was a runaway fire. https://www.msamlin.com/content/ms-a...the-risks.html __________________ 2016 SV650 AL7 Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain Last edited by SV650rules; 28-03-21 at 05:10 PM.

29-03-21, 06:52 AM	#217
Seeker Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: NE Lincs Posts: 1,080	Re: Electric Vehicles One of the earlier problems with Li batteries was dendrite formation. These were crystal-like growths on one electrode which would pierce the membrane separating the electrodes and the subsequent short circuit would cause a fire - remember the battery issues with the Boeing 787 introduction? If a battery pack gets mechanically pierced in an accident the same thing can happen. On the other hand if a car petrol tank gets pierced there's a risk of fire, too. __________________ 2016 SV650AL7 2023 GSX-8S

29-03-21, 10:05 AM	#218
Seeker Member Mega Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: NE Lincs Posts: 1,080	Re: Electric Vehicles Switched reluctance motor. No, I hadn't heard of them either, they don't use rare earth metals: https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/br...152144501.html __________________ 2016 SV650AL7 2023 GSX-8S

01-04-21, 07:53 AM	#219
Luckypants Moderator Mega Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nr Ruthin Posts: 7,056	Re: Electric Vehicles It had to come I suppose.... https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...l3QxmEByQ0WS6Q __________________ "Your Viffer sounds like it is raising hell! Spot on." - Witchery 17/4/08 Snow Plough Appreciation Society - Member #3

01-04-21, 07:58 AM	#220
Craig380 Member Mega Poster Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,243	Re: Electric Vehicles It's one of the better ones I've seen so far

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