best front fork springs?

[kaivalagi]

Originally Posted by toxic

I have Hagon progressive springs in my forks, how do the hyper pros differ?

Hagon are not progressive, they're dual rate that operate very closely to what progressive would...I'll try and dig out the discussion on it here...

If you look at pics of the hagon springs you'll see 2 distinct wind rates, whereas the hyperpro's vary along the length

I don't have either, I will be purchasing soonish, so I'd like to think I am unbiased

Hyperpro springs pic: http://www.moorespeedracing.co.uk/us...ve-springs.jpg
Hagon "progressive" springs pic: http://shop.wemoto.com/pictures/spri...gonsprings.jpg

All this is what I have read and am led to believe, I would love to be proved wrong cause I'll buy the cheaper Hagon springs is they're the same

Too late for me, I have the Hagon's already, for road use, with a Hagon rear shock, they seem fine.

[mikerj]

Originally Posted by kaivalagi

Are progressive springs not worth a mention?

As long as you fit progressive damping to go with them...

[kaivalagi]

Originally Posted by mikerj

As long as you fit progressive damping to go with them...

Seriously, for road use is it such a concern?

They seem like the best all around choice to me when the forks you have don't have all the bells and whistles like the newer tech sports...

Hi everyone, I found this and other fork spring topics very informative, so I thought I'd share my experiences before and after a hagon front fork spring/oil change...on a '55 SV650S

I was experiencing less than perfect stability in corners, too much dive during braking, a tendency to run a little wide as a result. Not confidence inspiring. I has real issues running on rutted tarmac (lots of that around Cornwall at the moment!) with the bike tracking badly, especially under hard braking downhill. I got paranoid that my 9yrs off motorcycles had took it's toll on my confidence levels!
I fitted the hagon progressives, and recommended oil. The original oil was in my opinion badly deteriorated, more so in the left fork that the right - water contamination??
Had a good ride out on Sunday, and the results were startling. I'm approx. 13-1/2st all up, with a standard shock at the rear - on position 4. Used the re-sprung forks on position 3.
I rather expected the diving problem to be improved, and, of course the damping. What I was most surprised about was the total elimination of tracking, and the improvements in straight-line at speed. The handling has been DRASTICALLY improved and it's good to know that it wasn't my imagination at work!
Whilst I'm not a racer, and my bike may have been a bad example of badly decayed oil, I have to say that the upgrade was worth every penny.
Hope this helps the discussion.

Originally Posted by mikerj

10% of 0.8 is not 0.1.

No, its .08. I can do maths

So if you order 0.8 you could be getting anything from 0.72 to 0.88

Originally Posted by mikerj

Say again? If you mean you measured your 0.9 springs at 0.87 and 0.88 then they are within about 3% of the nominal value. Chances of you noticing the difference is very tiny.

I ordered .9 springs and received 0.87 and 0.88 to replace 0.85 springs.

80 quid to have them nearer the old springs than the target. So I phoned them and was told that it didn't matter becasue there was a 10% variance on what was written on the springs anyway.

So I sent them back. and Bought racetecs... in 0.95 (to make sure)

C

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Electro

bingo, sexy forks

Plus some $$$ for emus and about 6 trips to Halifax (sorry!)

Originally Posted by kaivalagi

Are progressive springs not worth a mention? Alright they're a bit more but if your weight can vary quite a bit throughout the year or you might take a pillion now and then they wouldn't be a bad choice, no? Twinshack have the true progressive Hyperpro springs for £94

Truly progressive?

Personally I don't like them. From heavy braking the front seems to ping up, but going to a heavy 20W oil made them do weird stuff. No happy medium.

There's no problems with spring rate if your weight varies, not like you're going to put on 10 stone is it. And the forks hardly notice a pillion.

Originally Posted by kaivalagi

Seriously, for road use is it such a concern?

They seem like the best all around choice to me when the forks you have don't have all the bells and whistles like the newer tech sports...

Depends how fast you like to go on the road really.

Personally I think having suspension as good as possible is more important on a road bike, and I dislike the road/race separation people have in their heads. On a racetrack if you fall off, you don't die.


What is "all around" choice? Nobody seems to try and understand all or even any of the things at play beyond reading the bumf

Progressives from either manufacturer are better than stock. Hyperpro ones have feature that you can add preload and change spring rate range. But do you really want to do that?

I don't like how they don't release information about their springs. I want to know what I am using so if you get issue x you can narrow it down to variables a b or c, if you have unknowns in there you are blind.

[kaivalagi]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Truly progressive?

Personally I don't like them. From heavy braking the front seems to ping up, but going to a heavy 20W oil made them do weird stuff. No happy medium.

There's no problems with spring rate if your weight varies, not like you're going to put on 10 stone is it. And the forks hardly notice a pillion.

I'll read some more me thinks before I do anything...

TBH I am umming and arring as to whether I should start on the SV mods or just trade it in for something with fully adjustable suspension, better calipers and a more perky engine and be done with it...

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Depends how fast you like to go on the road really.

Personally I think having suspension as good as possible is more important on a road bike, and I dislike the road/race separation people have in their heads. On a racetrack if you fall off, you don't die.

Gotcha, that's the sort of stance that has got me thinking that rather than trying to make something of the SV that isn't all that great I should just bite the bullet and get something that's bang on in the first place....

I think this whole thing comes back to the other argument I read about, either the bike limiting you in the longer term or you limiting the bike....I am starting to think having a bike that can performance past my abilities will be best....especially as I improve as a rider.

edit: Apologies for taking the thread off on a tangent a little, it's just that a little explanation and justification would be a nice to read when suggestions on what's best are being posted...I was asking genuine questions and it looks like I need to get my head around the fundamentals myself before I'll be satisfied rather than posting lots of what if's...sorry. The next question I need to ask myself is even if I get the front suspension sorted out for me will the brakes be the next limiting thing....trouble is I don't know 100% until I get there, if I get there....might be better just to not mod and upgrade the whole bike!

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by kaivalagi

Gotcha, that's the sort of stance that has got me thinking that rather than trying to make something of the SV that isn't all that great I should just bite the bullet and get something that's bang on in the first place....

Why not make the SV something great? All you need is a good rear shock and a set of cartridges up front.

No such thing as a bike that's bang on in the first place.
Every stock bike has compromise, they need to work with fat blokes, thin blokes, corners, drag racers, muppets attacking the settings etc. etc.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by kaivalagi

I think this whole thing comes back to the other argument I read about, either the bike limiting you in the longer term or you limiting the bike....I am starting to think having a bike that can performance past my abilities will be best....especially as I improve as a rider.

edit: Apologies for taking the thread off on a tangent a little, it's just that a little explanation and justification would be a nice to read when suggestions on what's best are being posted...I was asking genuine questions and it looks like I need to get my head around the fundamentals myself before I'll be satisfied rather than posting lots of what if's...sorry. The next question I need to ask myself is even if I get the front suspension sorted out for me will the brakes be the next limiting thing....trouble is I don't know 100% until I get there, if I get there....might be better just to not mod and upgrade the whole bike!

There is no such thing as "limiting", there are people who will get a stock bike around a track faster than next bloke on a fully sorted one. The only limit that matters is that you AND the bike are better than the situations you put yourself in, which comes down to roadcraft and observation.

However your cornering skills are dependant on confidence in the bike, which comes with suspension and tyres. And having confidence and good setup will mean you can pull yourself out of the sh*t when observation breaks down (which it inevitably does on occasion).

Some other skills, like smoothness, are really well honed on a stock bike, as to corner well on a stocker you need to be really good at making the weight transfer just right.
Put spot on suspension on there, and you can be very gibbon like in the application of controls, while getting absolute feedback from the tyres giving you confidence you're not booking a short stay in the highside hotel (nice view but the foods sh*t).
Or just the lack of any phantom "aaahhrg I'm going to run wide" feelings which are probably the biggest limitation of stock kit.

But are we getting philosophical on a thread which should be technical?


On another note if you go from stock to some progressives, while they might not be the best option, they are probably 50% of the improvement.* Linears probably 55%. Well set up cartridges, 90%. Emulators when working absolutely perfectly on a good day, 90%.

*Which is why you go "wow" when you first try them and why people think they're ace, because they're much better than stock. To quote Paul Thede "the best you've ridden is the best you know".