AR Marking Discussion

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by Demonz

I found 06 getting buzzed by a marker was just as annoying as those you riding with.

IMHO if the markers are doing their jobs properly then you shouldnt get buzzed.

Example.

In AR06 I kept a good eye on my mirrors. I could see Sid Squid coming up to overtake me, he waited for a sec so he knew I had seen him. I let him know I had seen him, by indicating left slightly and moving over. He then waited till a clear piece of road and the overtook me leaving plenty of room and gave me a friendly wave as he went past.

He was safe, swift and smooth as he overtook me, he didnt cut in in front of me and left me room. I watched him repeat the process all the way through the pack of riders.

Originally Posted by ophic

Totally in agreement here. It's a privilege not a right. In fact its not even a privilege its a job. If people actually want to stand wearing a fluoro bib at the side of the road... there's 363 other days of the year they can do that.

Quite, well said.

I do think though in response to the new bloke further up the thread that it is a good idea for markers to know the route or at least have looked at a map in case they need to know where it is headed. But I do agree that if the job is done right that's not entirely necessary.

Originally Posted by ophic

Totally in agreement here. It's a privilege not a right. In fact its not even a privilege its a job. If people actually want to stand wearing a fluoro bib at the side of the road... there's 363 other days of the year they can do that.

+1 , ive been out on a rideout where we ( i say we, i was pillion) had to help mark, its no fun so i can't see why theres a big fuss over it all??
Id much rather be riding along than sat at a point in the sun/rain etc waiting for riders to pass me

Originally Posted by Demonz

I found 06 getting buzzed by a marker was just as annoying as those you riding with. Perhaps banning overtaking altogether would be a safer option - but rather boring too I guess.

Sometimes people make mistakes in judgement... might have simply been that.

Originally Posted by Grinch

Sometimes people make mistakes in judgement... might have simply been that.

Yes - I doubt it was intentional, but them just trying to make fast progress.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by anna

Why change something that works and is safe.

I dont meant to be funny here but, the only reason why people are even contemplating changing this is because it is felt that people who are markers have a little "power" over others.

If they feel that way then they are mistaken of course. Its a responsibility that we all take on for the good of the ride.

Originally Posted by Stig_Of_The_Dump

Markers worked on AR04,05,06 and 08. (Couldn't make 07).

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Dedicated markers work even better. Especially if carefully selected.

To be honest i am agreed with this above all else.

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

There is only one "problem" I see with this.

As mentioned, some people see the Markers as being "special" and getting treated differently.

So if a group or people that ride regularly together end up getting chosen for just that reason - ie they know each others capabilities, then there are going to be people complaining about cliques ad the like.

And one way to kill those complaints would be to change it about a bit, if its a safe and sensible new idea. But tbh ive not seen anyone suggest a better way as yet.

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

Its important to pickup on what Simon is saying here. Its not an excuse to ride like a tw*t. If theres people out there reading this and are thinking

"If I'm marker then I can do what I want when I want and ride like a moron"

Then you've mis-understood the job.

Too right and if i or any of the others who have done marking were found to be guilty of this i would expect not only to be taken off marking duties but even possibly be asked to stay at the back with the TEC or go back to the site and not particiapte further in the ride.

Originally Posted by Demonz

I think the issue Anna brings up is a valid one and probably relates to the forum/mod issue again. Who is 'in' and not 'in' - and how to include those that feel excluded so the event is a greater success. Hence my suggestion for this. I agree with you all - the main thing is safety and if you feel it would be a compromise then its not worth it.

As i say, i'm more than happy to give up my bib to someone like yourself Grant. I dont wanna keep going on about you and i''m sorry that i am but its just that out of the various groups i've riden with i've always liked your style of riding.
The majority of others i've ridden with have either not left any impression on me, good or bad, or are mainly those who have been chosen to be markers before due to their experience of riding together in groups.

One thing that comes with riding in groups with the same people often is you almost instinctively know what they are about to do or are thinking about doing so you allow for it.

Those who have been on rides where i have been TEC for example all know that if i flash my lights or beep my horn its a signal that ive seen them and they dont need to wait for me to get to them before they jump back on their bike and join back in, ths keeping the ride flowing and the traffic behind us happy.
Those who have ridden with me more often when ive been TEC know that as soon as they lay eyes on me they can go.
So its just natural to have a group take on a responsibility when they know each others riding well and can take cues from each other without the need to stop and discuss it and so spoil the flow of the ride.

For the record i think the "chosen in advance" group is the safest, simplest way, however if anyhone can suggest a system whereby other can be more involved, is safe and allows for those who wont want to join in then i'm all ears.

I deliberately haven't read any of the posts above, other than the OP.

My thoughts on the subject, in order to achieve some sort of balance (as I can see both sides):

I don't see why the leader of the rideout, as happens on many other rideouts, can't say "OK, I need x markers, if you want to volunteer, go ahead. Closing date is x. From the volunteers I'll go through the list & see who I think would be suitable. If you don't get chosen, please don't get ar*ey about it, it's purely a numbers thing. If we don't get enough volunteers, I'm going to have to approach some people directly & privately to ask them if they'd be up for it."

That way, people would be asked for their contribution to it and the organiser(s) would have people they trusted.

However, that does have the problem of people volunteering, but then getting upset at not being chosen. If not enough people from the volunteers are chosen, then things revert to how they were before.

2pennies, spent.

Speaking from a rider's perspective (ie not a marker, or a wannabe marker), when I'm in a massive group, I would like:

1) To know that every junction will be marked by someone who has taken responsibility for this job and will definitely be there (and will have the mobile number for at least several other known markers in the group and the leader & TEC).

2) That they will be easily visible to me if a gap has opened up and I'm the 'first' rider approaching the junction; eg wearing a yellow bib (which isn't possible if 'random' people in the group are dropping off as markers). Don't forget, we won't be the only group out riding in the countryside on a Saturday in August. All it takes is for a non-org bike to be parked up near a junction somewhere for one of us to think "oooh, are they one of ours?" and take a wrong turn.

3) To feel reassured that the markers who are making their way through the group are doing that job because the leader has chosen them for their safe, consistent and considerate riding ability. I'm sorry, but I'd rather have a wannabe feeling left out, than have them being chosen as a marker, regardless of known riding ability, just so that they feel included.

I'm totally happy for markers to be 'chosen' ones. Surely the main objective is to have a safe and smooth-running rideout? So if the ride leader is taking responsiblity for the ride then he / she should select people that they can trust to assist them with this.

The inevitable race to the front for unselected markers is a nightmare - as Spidey said, some people's riding manners have been appalling in the past (the difficult thing being that they were probably totally unaware that they were spooking less experienced riders).

As others have said, if it ain't broke (and 'broke' is a badly organised rideout, not a bruised ego)...

Originally Posted by Spiderman

As i say, i'm more than happy to give up my bib to someone like yourself Grant.

Thanks Zig, but its not necessary. I'm not one for comitted marking or riding as free weekends are rarity in my life this year. My comments/ideas were only a suggestion to get people more involved (I hope in a positve way).

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by Baph

I don't see why the leader of the rideout, as happens on many other rideouts, can't say "OK, I need x markers, if you want to volunteer, go ahead. Closing date is x. From the volunteers I'll go through the list & see who I think would be suitable. If you don't get chosen, please don't get ar*ey about it, it's purely a numbers thing. If we don't get enough volunteers, I'm going to have to approach some people directly & privately to ask them if they'd be up for it."

That way, people would be asked for their contribution to it and the organiser(s) would have people they trusted.

Only problem i see with this sugestion is that it implies that the Ride Leader (RL) will be familiar with the riding ability and style of each of those who volunteered. If they're not then surely those are the first names the RL will chuck out and will only be left with the names of people who they are familiar with and have ridden with before....leaving them open again to accusations of favouritism.

Originally Posted by Demonz

Thanks Zig, but its not necessary. I'm not one for comitted marking or riding as free weekends are rarity in my life this year. My comments/ideas were only a suggestion to get people more involved (I hope in a positve way).

haha, like i sadi mate i wa just using you as an exapmle cos you're in the thread, not a Soho-er and i've ridden with you and like your riding style. Never wanted you to think i was trying to pass the buck to you there

Originally Posted by Cazza

2) That they will be easily visible to me if a gap has opened up and I'm the 'first' rider approaching the junction; eg wearing a yellow bib (which isn't possible if 'random' people in the group are dropping off as markers). Don't forget, we won't be the only group out riding in the countryside on a Saturday in August. All it takes is for a non-org bike to be parked up near a junction somewhere for one of us to think "oooh, are they one of ours?" and take a wrong turn.

I agreed with all of cazza's post but this bit in articular has to be thought about. One year the only person who went off track did so just for this reason. a bike that was just passing thru our pack turned off at a roundabout and the rider directly behind him assumed he was one of us and so followed him. Its was resolved quickly and easily enough but its all to easy for it to happen.

Also i did the same thing one the way to an AR one year. Thought i was following one of us until i realise we were on roads i'd already covered.