Brunstrom yet again

Geez how the hell do i quote all these quotes lol??????

Ok Spiderman yep I know exactly what you`re saying but the thread i`m replying to is about ecstasy and should it be declassified... I`m not talking bout deaths related to speeding or deaths related to alcohol abuse or smoking. I`m replying to a question about whether a drug should be declassified!

"As posted in another thread, I went on a course a few months back and part of that course was drug awareness. On that course the tutor told us that in the last year only 2 people have died while doing ecstasy and neither of them were as a direct result of ecstasy. One died the same way as Leah, by drinking too much and the other died by mixing drugs.

So that makes precisely 0 deaths as a direct result of taking E out of the several million people who take it!!"



They were ecstasy related!!!! 2 people took what they believed to be an ecstasy tablet and died... end of!!!! one died because that ecstasy tablet was mixed and the other poor person died cos they drank too much water. That to me says those deaths were "ecstasy related" which is what the figures I quoted are based on and research says there are 7 deaths out of every one million ecstasy users.

What exactly was this course??? who was it run by? was it a creditable institution?? How can you possibly say that those 2 deaths weren`t caused by taking ecstasy??

"There isn't even any conclusive evidence of long term affects yet, only here say and conjecture."

Totally disagree...... there is a minefield of conclusive evidence out there proving the long term effects of drug abuse. I`ve watched friends lose jobs and their marriages break down due to the effects of drug abuse ie. paranoia, memory loss, depression. Go into any mental health ward and see for yourself how many of the patients are there due to the long term effects of drug abuse!

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Well I already said I know **** when it comes to drugs, but lots of folk on here have said it is sometimes mixed with rat poision and Speedy Claire in particular sounds like she knows her onions on the subject.

Where are you getting your information?

lol tis not from personal use!!!

My knowledge only comes from years in nursing and in all different areas of nursing. Unfortunately I soak up information and I`m always on different courses cos I constantly like to learn new things. A lot of the courses I`ve completed over the last few years have centred on drug and alcohol abuse purely because I`m now in District Nursing and the area of Liverpool I`m working in has huge problems caused by drug and alcohol misuse.

For my facts and figures it`s either in my head or I just opened some of my course notes to get the figures.

It`s not often i`d let myself get dragged into a debate lite this but I just felt I wanted to drag my soap box out.... not everyone is going to agree with what i`ve posted but its not a problem. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and this is mine!

[Spiderman]

Aw Calire i feel for you hun. You made a very good post to start with and its got the conversation going nicely. Tho since you were the first everyone seems to be quoting you, lol, and i hope you dont think i'm having a go at you or what you said in any way.
I was more quoting you to save myself typing things than critising your post. I hope thats come across but by the number of !!!!!!!!!s in your last post it would seem we have got you a little exasperated.

Oh and big hugs to you cos you're a nurse. I have more respect for most nurses than i do for doctors or specialists. You guys do the hard work

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

the figures I quoted are based on and research says there are 7 deaths out of every one million ecstasy users.

For sake of argument lets assume this research is accurate. A quick google tells me that there are 30 million packets of paracetamol sold in the UK every year. For sake of argument lets say that the average packet size is 25 pills. So 750 million paracetamol pills sold each year. 7 deaths x 750 = 5250 (stick with it, not finished yet). Lets say an "Ecstasy user" takes 2 pills per week, it says "per ecstacy user" not "per ecstacy pill" so we need to take 5250 / 104 = approx 50. I'm going to assume a timescale of a year and since we've allowed for two pills EVERY week I think thats fair, ie: if you monitored a million ecstacy users, two pills a week, for a year, 7 would die (Claire - what you you think of that assumption?).

If 50 people per year were dying from paracetamol would that be classed as safe? Thats a question not a statement.

I think (but I don't know for sure) that the 30 million packets of paracetamol does not include sales of paracetamol based products such as cold and flu remedies and other branded pain killers, so I reckon you could easily double the estimate to 100 deaths without being unreasonable.

For comparison 600 people a year in the UK die on a motorbike. You could conclude that ecstacy is 5 or 10 times safer than riding a motorbike. That said I guess a large proportion of those killed on motorbikes were numpty's, the majority are on country roads with no other vehicles involved. I control my actions on a motorbike, I don't control what goes in an ecstacy pill, so in terms of my own personal safety, I'd still rather jump on a motorbike than take an ecstacy pill.

I'm not drawing conclusions here, I don't know enough about drugs to do so, just doing the mathematics (albeit with some big assumptions) to make what I think is a fair comparison to our most common drug, paracetamol, and let you draw your own conclusions.

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

So that makes precisely 0 deaths as a direct result of taking E out of the several million people who take it!!"



They were ecstasy related!!!! 2 people took what they believed to be an ecstasy tablet and died... end of!!!! one died because that ecstasy tablet was mixed and the other poor person died cos they drank too much water. That to me says those deaths were "ecstasy related" which is what the figures I quoted are based on and research says there are 7 deaths out of every one million ecstasy users.
but it was not the ecstacy that killed them,


there is a minefield of conclusive evidence out there proving the long term effects of drug abuse. I`ve watched friends lose jobs and their marriages break down due to the effects of drug abuse ie. paranoia, memory loss, depression. Go into any mental health ward and see for yourself how many of the patients are there due to the long term effects of drug abuse!

not just ecstacy though?

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Aw Calire i feel for you hun. You made a very good post to start with and its got the conversation going nicely. Tho since you were the first everyone seems to be quoting you, lol, and i hope you dont think i'm having a go at you or what you said in any way.
I was more quoting you to save myself typing things than critising your post. I hope thats come across but by the number of !!!!!!!!!s in your last post it would seem we have got you a little exasperated.

Oh and big hugs to you cos you're a nurse. I have more respect for most nurses than i do for doctors or specialists. You guys do the hard work

ha ha ha... if you could see my hair now, it was neatly pulled back in a hair clamp.... now i have bits falling out all over the place where i`ve tugged at it lmao. Nope I honestly don`t take anything personally. I know that out of all the members on here each and everyone of us is going to have differing opinions and experiences so I really don`t think anyones having a go at me. Different opinions is what makes it interesting and is what makes a debate a debate. How boring would it be if we all agreed!

The use of all the exclamation marks is purely cos you can`t see my hands up in the air and the expression on my face... tis one of the problems of non face to face conversation.

And many thanks for your kind words

Hovis they died as a result of taking what they believed to be an Ecstasy tablet? whether that tablet was pure or mixed with some other substance is, to me, irrelevant. Somebody bought an ecstasy tablet and digested it.... sadly they died... that to me equals an ecstasy related death. They died because they took an ecstasy tablet.

An yes I totally agree with you... its not just ecstasy that causes mental health problems, cannabis does as does cocaine but the original thread was about Brunstrom and his comments on ecstasy

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

lol tis not from personal use!!!

My knowledge only comes from years in nursing

Thats the wrong end of the stick Claire!

I was quoting gettin2dizzy's comment about rat poison in ecstacy being laughable when I asked...

Originally Posted by Ralph

Where are you getting your information?

Your [Speedy Claire] information seems to have come from an informed source. Read my "mathematics" above and see what you think?

Originally Posted by Speedy Claire

Hovis they died as a result of taking what they believed to be an Ecstasy tablet? whether that tablet was pure or mixed with some other substance is, to me, irrelevant. Somebody bought an ecstasy tablet and digested it.... sadly they died... that to me equals an ecstasy related death. They died because they took an ecstasy tablet.

i see what you are saying, but........ ecsatasy, did not actully kill them
in the same way that if you drunk what you thought was lemonaid, but was antifreeze or somthing, would you class this as lemonaid releted death?

if you ask me alcohol should be made illegal there is no other drug that makes otherwise sane people act insanely!! i wonder how many alcohol related deaths there are a year hmmm alot i would suspect. at the end of the day people have free will and if they choose to pop pills and consume alcohol aswell then its there funeral!! in my book you only have one body so dont abuse it!