Social Security

Originally Posted by Ed

What all this conveniently ignores is that I have paid higher rate tax for just about all my working life. I have paid NI too, stamp duty, VAT, the whole damn lot. I have paid in a fortune and if I fell on hard times I expect something back. Why shouldn't I?

What I proposed in my previous post would help deal with this. In a worst case scenario where it looked like you'd be off work for more than 6 months, you'd at least have a window in which to downsize in a controlled manner, rather than liquidating your assets overnight (and hence, because of the urgency, having to take a big hit in their value).

On the one hand I want to ensure there's enough in the pot to ensure no one starves (not least because I don't want people to be driven/given the excuse to commit crimes to survive). At the same time, I think if you've paid more into the pot, you should be entitled to more when you need to draw on it than someone who has paid in less or indeed, perhaps nothing (I know the unemployed technically have contributions paid for them, but that's semantics; it's the taxpayer who pays those too).

[Luckypants]

I thought that income related 'dole' was phased out in the 70s because it was costing too much? I too agree that after paying in at 40% plus NI (not forgetting employers NI as a result of your working) then you should get more out. A phased reduction in benefit from say 75% of earning when made redundant to a basic level of benefit over 12 months would be fairer I think. This also acts as an incentive to work, if you have paid in something, you get more out than just the basic subsistence level.

When I was made redundant in 1994, I had paid in over £12K to the system the year before. Similar amounts for the 4 years prior to that. But I got nothing in terms of benefits because my then partner earned too much and that was not a huge salary. Penalised for working hard! I spent all my redundancy payment, all our savings and all my partners wages keeping our house and other bills paid. I was out of work for 9 months and not one iota of help.

The above is why I don't see why those who have never work should get anything.

That allowance is seroiusly poor. I'm on £85 a week standard hours + overtime. That's with me in full time education.
I think the jobs are out there if people actually go looking for them and accept the fact they may have to work minimum wage.

I remember seeing an article in a paper about Slough (i think, or somewhere similar) that had one of the highest unemployment rates in england. There were also about five different job vacancies mentioned in this article in Slough's local paper all offering minimum wage. No one at all responded to the adverts.

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by Luckypants

IThe above is why I don't see why those who have never work should get anything.

Oh there are many, perhaps the org should get tents and camp on the green in front of my house, gather their deckchairs to see the locals round here who do exactly that.
I just roll my eyes in my head and ignore it these days, as whatever the system, theres always someone that will take advantage or bend the rules to suit

[timwilky]

As someone who pays his 40% tax, NI etc. I too have gripes about the levels of benefits. What I do not understand is why my lad at 21 is deemed to require less to live on than a 25 year old who may live at home with mummy/daddy yet my lad has to pay his gas/electricity etc.

I discussed this with the nice lady at the job centre two weeks ago when I took the wife for her monthly get a job interview. The nice lady did not understand the reason for the rule either and was genuinely shocked when she check my statement was correct.

Interestingly the nice lady only deals with getting those on incapacity benefit back to work. She herself suffers from MS and twice Lynnes interviews had to be cancelled because this lady was unable to work. But she is a good example to all who meet her of if I can work, is there a reason why you cannot.

It is a safety net. It is not meant to be generous. I therefore cannot understand how anyone can live on it for an extended period. Unless of course they also do a bit of cash in hand.

I think that a lot of us are far to quick to judge others. There are a lot of people who cannot work due to health reasons. As for everyone else who doesn't work, then that is the governments fault and the system that has developed over the years. I've had the view for many years, and it's a view shared by others on here, that if you can't find your own job, then you'll be given one to earn your keep rather than receive a 'handout' for sitting on your backside. Everywhere I go I see 'work that needs doing. Litter needs picking up, graffitti needs removing, old peoples overgrown gardens need tidying. There are so many vital land based jobs that need doing. Parts of the country flood every year because drainage maintainance has not been carried out for decades. It's about time that someone with some common sense got into power and shook the whole system up.

My younger brother has MS and has had it since he was 20 (about 10 years) Over the last year or so his health has deteriaorated to the point where he is unable to walk for weeks at a time. Because of this he has cut down his hours from a five days week to a four day week. This was done purely because he is physically unable to manage a long week without having a relapse. With the social/income support that he gets because of his drop in wage he is actually better off now he only works 4 days, how does that work.
Now i have no gripes about him getting this money, i wouldn't want to be in his shoes for anything, but if thats the way the system works how will it ever encourage the malingerers (sp) in society to work a full week or infact work at all.

Ahh, a gripe about hand outs in a time of financial troubles. Completely understandable. In fact, the government picked up on this a few months ago and made some half arsed plans to 'get tough'.

It's all ******** though. The time to try and deal with getting people off benefits and into work was when there were jobs available. The government did fk all when there was plenty of money and employment about and now they're panicking, desperately trying to look like they're doing something useful.

Be angry with the government about their benefits policies, but be angry because they did nothing when it would have made a difference. There's little point getting wound up about hand outs now - very soon it'll be because most of those people are out of a job and actually need it.

Originally Posted by SoulKiss

To avoid derailing other threads, just how SHOULD we support those who have hit hard times or sickness/illness.

Not a poll, a place for discussion on what should be done.

My thoughts are that a life on the dole should not be one of comfort, there should be few if any luxuries to act as an incentive to Improve.

The whole thing should become cash-less, I mean why are there advertising campaigns to encourage people on housing benefit to pay their rent on time?

Why is this not paid directly to the landlord, so avoiding any chance of it being spent elsewhere?

Why not do a deal with Tesco and get Jamie Oliver to come up with a bunch of Meal Plans/Recipes and have food parcels delivered, each containing healthy balanced food and the instructions to prepare it, again this being paid directly.

It would also address obesity issues etc.

Clothing would also be provided likewise.

As a condition of getting these benefits (and any others) all women and if/when the technology is available are to be put on contraceptive treatments - implanted if possible.

It is my view that we ARE responsible to ensure that each and every member of out society has somewhere safe to stay, food on their plates, clothes on their backs and shoes on their feet.

+1 apart from the last bit - I don't believe we are responsible - they should take responsibility for themselves

Originally Posted by Magnum

That allowance is seroiusly poor. I'm on £85 a week standard hours + overtime. That's with me in full time education.
I think the jobs are out there if people actually go looking for them and accept the fact they may have to work minimum wage.

I remember seeing an article in a paper about Slough (i think, or somewhere similar) that had one of the highest unemployment rates in england. There were also about five different job vacancies mentioned in this article in Slough's local paper all offering minimum wage. No one at all responded to the adverts.

You get paid at school?