Hiroshima - 64 years yesterday

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

+1 to that.

This subject, and any subject regarding a decision made in war or to go to war, will always be a highly emotive subject with many different view points.

I respect everyones opinion but it cannot change my mind and make me believe that killing 100,000 civillians was right.

If we were at war with another country, who were facing catastrophic losses to their military personnel, and they unleashed, for example, a chemical bomb in the centre of London killing 100,000 innocent, ordinary people, what would you say then?

The reasons behind the war do not matter here, and the incident at Pearl Harbour does not in any way, shape or form, justify the killing of so many innocent men, women and children.

MBK, you know you and i dont often see eye to eye on things but i'd like to say BRAVO to your post above.

Originally Posted by Spiderman

MBK, you know you and i dont often see eye to eye on things but i'd like to say BRAVO to your post above.

Why thank you very much Spidey!

[Wideboy]

in no way condone the fact the 100,000's of innocent people were killed but you can't really jump at the yanks, if they hadn't of done it someone else would have........ its very sad that it had to come to that to end the war.

the Nazi's and japs were shipping uranium and other bomb making gear to each other via submarines for some time during ww2, the Nazi's were brewing heavy water in Telemark and if they hadn't have been defeated then chances are we wouldn't be talking about Hiroshima but talking about London?............. or even talking about it at all for that matter. Everyone was at it and the nuclear arms race after ww2 backs it up, even we had a sh"te attempted at it

i agree that at the end of the day the bombs was dropped to save US troops and its hard to condone that, however, if they had of invaded on foot, how many of the "innocent" civilians would have lifted arms and fought against the yanks? it did happen on a lot of the islands as the yanks moved towards Japan, it would have gone the way Vietnam did with not knowing who is innocent and who is the enemy...... abit like the modern day middle east.

also were innocent people attacked at pearl harbour? there was no war between the two so technically weren't they also innocent?

dropping the bombs must have been one hell of a difficult decision to make




I have a long drive with a hang over and Its not often that i switch on the sensible side of my brain but this thread caught my attention............ so plz don't flame me

War is bad, full stop.

Mmm Kay?

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

I'm not really blaming anyone, tbh, I'm not sure if the Americans really knew what an impact the bomb was going to have!

I think they did...

Search Trinity Atomic Test

Originally Posted by Wideboy

in no way condone the fact the 100,000's of innocent people were killed but you can't really jump at the yanks, if they hadn't of done it someone else would have........

Yes, putting aside all the hand-wringing/condoning, someone has to go first.

When I was at school my modern studies (politics!) teacher was a fully paid up CND/lefty/socialist type, he even tried to sell the Socialist Worker paper to kids at school

He did however raise one point that, 25 years later is still with me: -

Would the "Ban the Bomb" movements in the 50's & 60's have gained as much momentum as they did, had the populace not seen for themselves the destructive power of a nuclear explosion?

I can remember debating this point in class, and although people went to the cinema to watch the news reels (I've also seen them some 40 years after they were made) and saw bright flashes/big clouds etc, the faces of those "observing" were all smiles and the propaganda machines went into overdrive.

It wasn't until the bomb was dropped that the world saw the real devastation that could be unleashed. Especially when you read my earlier post where I commented on only a very small part of the weapon actually reaching fission, or whatever it is that nuclear weapons do.

Take the Cuban missile crisis, both the USA & CCCP had between them enough weapons to destroy this planet several times over. Do you think that if the bomb hadn't been dropped on Japan then this crisis would have turned out differently??

I do.

As much as the unleashing of any WMD is just unbearable to think about, in the case of Hiroshima & Nagasaki, it's happened, and there is nothing this generation can do about it, BUT, (and please don't burn me at the stake for this next bit!!!), in a way I'm glad it did happen.

If it hadn't then, then it would have done by now. Maybe none of us would be here if the both the yanks & the commies had started a big metal spear throwing war in the Carribean.

If it hadn't happened in WW2 then maybe there wouldn't have been such a restriction by the superpowers as to who could join in the fun of a DIY garden shed nuclear bomb. Every despot little dictator since then may have been able to get their dirty little hands on them and worse still, USE IT.

I do actually believe that the greed of the superpowers wanting to keep this limited, and only to themselves, has been an inadvertant bit of good luck. Their wanting to keep it all to themselves has in a way stopped all the fanatics. If Saddam Hussein had them in 1991 would he have held back from actually using them???

Genocide, in relation to the Balkans, Rwanda, Somalia, even Muggabe might have had a far more sinister outcome. Hell even the Argies have said that had they had nuclear tipped tactical weapons then they would have used them on us.

I would rather that we didn't have them at all, but when faced with a choice of the likes of Saddam, or Muggabe, or Ahmadinejad (Iran) having them, then what we have now is the best out of a bad lot.

I believe that what we have now has in some way been bourne out of the dropping of the bombs on Japan. Had they not been dropped then the outcomes and what we have today would have been entirely different, and probably not for the better.

Im with Milky Bar Kid & Spiderboy. People here seem to be forgetting that its crappy Governments that cause the war's, not the people, they cold have perhaps voted them out or got rid of them in some other way... Either way the forces dont really have a choice in what they have to do...

Basically this was down to a hand full of people on both sides of the war who were responsible for starting a War and keeping it going, and in the end finishing it. Ill bet the US didnt get done for war crimes? Of course not, they won. Shocking if im honest.

Same goes in todays conflicts. Our forces get a lot of stick for being out there but lets be honest they dont have much choice... they do what they are told by a crappy Government that has most things backwards. This is one of the reasons im getting out, I dont want to be in that line of work when the Government just uses and abuses us and doesnt look after us when we need it.


As to the Nazi's and Nuclear bombs it was always meant for the US, they had the means to bomb us with them. Hitler liked us Brits because he cosidered us to be part of the Master race.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by ThEGr33k

As to the Nazi's and Nuclear bombs it was always meant for the US, they had the means to bomb us with them. Hitler liked us Brits because he cosidered us to be part of the Master race.

Not forgetting that Queenie is also of german heritage and her sisters were in the nazi party.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Spiderman

yeh i watched a similar thing a couple of weeks ago in the run up to the aniversary.

The biggest war crime of mass genocide ever perpetrated in humanity. Fascinating photos to look at, hopefully one day those who decided to tst their bomb on a largely civialian population will be brought to justice.

Bit late, since they're dead. I think it would be a dull trial, and I think you are wrong.

Originally Posted by timwilky

I had an uncle on the Burma railway, he did not come back. Sorry to have to say I think the use of the bomb was justified. Millions of allied troops would have been killed trying to force a surrender by conventional means

I have read somewhere the US expected to lose nearly a million troops in an invasion of the Japanese home islands.

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Shocking pictures. I cannot comprehend how that was justified, to wipe out a city full of civillians who had done nothing wrong other than be in the wrong country at the wrong time.

The Japanese would have done the exact same to us, or to civilian populations at the end of a bayonet. They were not pleasant enemies. Savages beyond reason.


So, what would you have done? Continued the blockade, the conventional bombing? Starved a whole nation of civvies to death rather than incinerate one city.

Or not started a war in the first place, but if you believe that's possible then you don't understand people.

[QUOTE=Milky Bar Kid;1997798
I respect everyones opinion but it cannot change my mind and make me believe that killing 100,000 civillians was right. [/QUOTE]

I am aware difficult decisions will always have to be made in war. But as I stated above, I still won't make me feel that it was ok.