I can't believe it? Independence?????

[andrewsmith]

[carelesschucca]

Originally Posted by TamSV

Is that a job for life guaranteed by the UK Govt? If so, sweet gig.

Nothing is guaranteed, but can you see the Scottish military being large enough to sustain a pay office that currently pays the whole of the British forces? I think not. Most of our jobs would move south as no country is going to leave their military pay office in an independent country.

Yeah I'm thinking about me but why would I vote for something that gives me a good chance to be worse off. ie loose my job, I may have a gun but I sure as hell ain't gonna shoot myself in the foot with it...

[Blue Flame]

Labour don't want it to happen cos they will never get the votes to get back into Westminster again.

In the eyes of a lot of people we are continually being governed by a party that was not voted for by the majority of the Scottish populace.

A lot of scaremongering is currently going on in my opinion but I am still on the fence about it all at the moment. I need to hear more. Being selfish I would want to know for example how it would affect me working for an English company with no offices in Scotland but my job role covers the UK. I would assume that as I am residential in Scotland then my company would have to pay the Scottish taxes?..but how else would it be impacted.

The devil inside of me though says why not give it a go. There's nothing wrong with a wee bit of self-determination.

It also scares me to think about what a No vote will bring. A momentous shafting I suspect for daring to ask the question.

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Blue Flame

Being selfish I would want to know for example how it would affect me working for an English company with no offices in Scotland but my job role covers the UK.

same rules apply to English working up in Scotland. it comes under EU trading. think ebay, amizon, power/gas banks etc.etc.

if the English really wanted to get a bit upset about it they could insist on the Scottish residents who work in England apply for a visa. and we could do the same but only if we dont join the EU.

i have said this already but here goes again. there will be NO change to the Scottish public's daily going ons. as it will take a minimum of 5 years to get even the slightest bit of things sorted out. then maybe in 50 years we will be fully independent.

someone mentioned about the national debt, well Scotland has had no money from England apart from our yearly budget so how can Scotland be responsible for something the rest of the UK has done to its self. Scotland has had grants from the EU not Westminster. if Scotland does have debts then they are Scottish debts that the Scottish parliament have agreed to.

Scotland also will own part of the British armed forces as they have paid into them or Westminster and Holyrood come to an agreement about a combined force where the Scottish Gov still pay in (a protectorate).

personally i think the only people who are going to get upset about Scotland getting independence are the English Gov.

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by Blue Flame

Being selfish I would want to know for example how it would affect me working for an English company with no offices in Scotland but my job role covers the UK. I would assume that as I am residential in Scotland then my company would have to pay the Scottish taxes?..but how else would it be impacted.

That seems to be the main issue for a lot of people at the moment - general uncertainty about what a Yes or No vote means. I think most people are coming to the realisation that no-one's going to tell them. Chucca's got a pretty well reasoned argument on the personal effects for him but most people can't be so sure.

The problem is there's no "truth" to be got at here. On things like keeping the pound, both sides are setting up their negotiating position and I can't see how we'll get any further on that one. UK Govt has nothing to gain by suggesting there's a compromise to be had and the SNP would be foolish to enter a negotiation having already revealed their Plan B. Much the same for pretty much everything else of any importance. In any case, the Governments debating it now may not be the same Governments who end up sitting down to negotiate.

For the EU, I can easily see scenarios in 5 years where Scotland is not in the EU but UK is, or Scotland is in but the UK isn't, or both are in, or both are out.

Forecasts of the economic future is a waste of time too. If you look at the chancellors budget forecasts, for as long as I can remember they've always been wrong so, even under the status quo, we don't know what's going to happen next year. If you then look at the revisions to those forecasts you'll realise we're not actually certain what happened last year! Any economic predictions for 5, 10 or 20 years hence is entirely a crystal ball enterprise.

Comparing a future independent Scotland with the UK over time periods like that means imagining the reaction of governments as yet unelected to events that have not yet occurred.

So we can't predict the outcome of independence negotiations and we don't know what a new devolution settlement will look like. Both Scotland individually, and the UK as a whole, will face risks and opportunities but we don't know who would **** it up the most.

This debate in Scotland has been very rational so far. Lots of facts and figures but it seems pretty meaningless to me. We're trying to avoid the emotional flag waving because, these days, everything needs to have a "business case". I've certainly been guilty of that. I've been pro-independence for some time and have made arguments based on the facts and figures. The truth is, if you could prove to me that I'd be substantially worse off (you can't, but if you could) I would still vote Yes.

At the end of the day it is, I think, an emotional decision. A question of blood and soil. A position of principle. An act of faith.

MBK identifies as British and will vote accordingly. Others will identify as Scottish and make a different decision. Some will vote for Independence as they see it as the best route to their own little version of utopia. Others will want to vote Yes but will vote No out of fear. All valid reasons IMO, but I wonder if we'll have the courage to admit that's what it's about or will we just keep on talking about the numbers?

I will be voting no.

[TamSV]

Were you already decided on that or have you been convinced?

It is my own view
I apologise in advance but I am not here to debate.
It is simply my expression of my democratic right.

[TamSV]

Originally Posted by The Basket

It is my own view
I apologise in advance but I am not here to debate.
It is simply my expression of my democratic right.

Fair enough

I asked because I'm interested how the undecided voters are coming to a decision. Maybe they won't.

Originally Posted by The Basket

It is simply my expression of my democratic right.

Who said you had any rights?!


GUARDS!!