EU Referendum

[Bri w]

Originally Posted by Red ones

Why shouldn't rich countries help poorer ones?
The alternative is the rich ones let the poor ones struggle, fail to produce enough to support their people and become a breeding ground for unrest and civil rebellion.

Isn't this the original idea of the EU? To stop this happening?

Originally Posted by Bibio

that was my understanding. but like always greed, lawyers and politicians get in the way.

I wouldn't say that having our largest growth industry being food banks, closing disabled centres, reducing benefits and increasing pension ages makes us rich. Nor do I feel it overly fair that we are the cash cow for a country like France that has a far higher GDP yet pays significantly less in... let's not forget that it is France that have insisted that the EU parliament uproots every other week and moves to Strasbourg at a cost of €20mill a time. BTW, France's retirement age is 62, with an increased pension if they stay on till 66.

I don't have a problem with being in a fair EU if its a fair playing field. And that doesn't mean I have a problem with paying more.

I want to stay in but I'm finding it frustratingly difficult to square the circle for this vote. I feel David Cameron has done a lousy job in the negotiations when he could have forced the EU's hand better.

[Red ones]

You have to hand it to the leave campaign. Garage, Johnson and Gove. One paid by the EU and married to an immigrant, one is an immigrant, and one I thought was the worst Education Secretary ever (only beaten by their successor) who spoke about us having to copy education in parts of Europe in order to improve. Now campaigning against immigration, waste of EU funds (like MEP salaries?) and European meddling.

At least between them they are making Corbyn look more like a credible alternative!

[Bri w]

Originally Posted by Red ones

You have to hand it to the leave campaign. Garage, Johnson and Gove. One paid by the EU and married to an immigrant, one is an immigrant, and one I thought was the worst Education Secretary ever (only beaten by their successor) who spoke about us having to copy education in parts of Europe in order to improve. Now campaigning against immigration, waste of EU funds (like MEP salaries?) and European meddling.

At least between them they are making Corbyn look more like a credible alternative!

I do wish David Miliband would re-enter politics. He'll get my vote.

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Red ones

You have to hand it to the leave campaign. Garage, Johnson and Gove. One paid by the EU and married to an immigrant, one is an immigrant, and one I thought was the worst Education Secretary ever (only beaten by their successor) who spoke about us having to copy education in parts of Europe in order to improve. Now campaigning against immigration, waste of EU funds (like MEP salaries?) and European meddling.

At least between them they are making Corbyn look more like a credible alternative!

but thats the whole point. the Gov want to stay in the EU now so they put muppets in for the leave vote campaign.

if the Gov wanted to leave trust me the media would be bombarded with scare stories and brain washing tactics.

i dont understand what the British grip is with immigrants, we were all immigrants at some point in our family history, FFS the royal family are all immigrants or is that inbreeds... oooohh wait its both.

I'm no immigrant I'm a ginger.
My biggest problem with the eu is it is unelected bureaucracy, which costs money and produces nothing except for the possibility for those involved to promote themselves and make money.

Just like our own government but at least they can be voted out if there ever is a better option.

My main concern is the super ants using it as an excuse for indy 2, Indy 1 was divisive enough, not sure Scotland could survive a second.

[littleoldman2]

Originally Posted by Kilted Ginger

My main concern is the super ants using it as an excuse for indy 2, Indy 1 was divisive enough, not sure Scotland could survive a second.

Bloody right.

One thing people don't seem to consider is the effect the referendum has on our European colleges. Should we vote to stay in, human nature being what it is, we will not be seen in the same way again.

I believe had the Scottish vote been open to the rest of the UK, say the question being "should Scotland be separate from the UK" then they would now be independent. I had breakfast with 8 English people the morning after the vote and when they were told, they all hung their heads and said oh no (I'm pleased they stayed). Perhaps if we asked the electorate of France and Germany we may be surprised at the result.

[Bibio]

i dont really want to raise the subject but Scotland will never get independence until such times that SNP no longer have interests in Westminster. SNP could do it right now without a referendum as they hold all but three of the seats in Holyrood but they wont (even though everyone i have spoke who voted to stay said they voted the wrong way and now regret the decision) as they all have a seat in Westminster as well. i have a sneaky suspicion that SNP threatened Westminster with this and was the reason Westminster done a u-turn on the funding cuts to Scotland's budget....

[chris8886]

Originally Posted by theenglishman

Finally, however you feel, please vote. not voting in this referendum is the biggest mistake.

quite right, I am still undecided as to which way I shall vote, but currently I am so undecided that I am thinking of going and spoiling my ballot paper, so that at least I have had a say of some sort.... and that is the important part, at least I will have had a say in it.

Originally Posted by Mrs DJ Fridge

We deal with the rest of Europe a lot and I am firmly in, I feel that we need to be able to have European Arrest Warrants and Cameron has at least left us with the veto if we need it. I am worried that if we vote out France will just take all of those disenfranchised people in Calais and say "There you are, we have no agreement with them, off you go" and let them all across to us and the problem will be worse than ever

thankfully the French can't do that currently as for example, we have our border with france in Calais and we are able to stop people coming into the country in france before they actually get into England. and on the other side they currently have their border in dover, which I have found mkes things far swifter when arriving in Calais, even if I don't particularly like it, but it does make sense...

[NTECUK]

The EU is in practice s neo liberal corporate puppy.
Britain will be governed by a European coalition government that we cannot change, dedicated to a Neo-liberal economy theology.
This policy is to be sold to us by projecting an unjustified optimism about the Community, and an unjustified pessimism about the United Kingdom, designed to frighten us.

[Biker Biggles]

"Its the economy,stupid"
Nothing else should matter in this vote because without a prosperous economy we will have less power and influence,we will all be poorer,and all those other issues like sovriegnty will be marginalised because we wont actually have the clout to enforce them in the real world.Wake up and smell the coffee in the 21st century.