Warrington murder

Well a few years ago a young lad was killed by a thug and the thug got 18 months. That happened in Warrington too.

18 MONTHS! That would be soft for robbery but for killing?

The problem is crime is no longer followed by punishment. Discipline goes out the window and no one is answerable for thier actions.

I blame liberal views on crime and the idea that it is society is to blame or the parents and not the scumbag.

Personal responsibility is the key.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by Razor

It's not just Warrington, most local papers are full of muggings, beatings and stabbings.
My local paper seems to have a battered pensioner on the front page every other week.

It's the ridiculous rule that you must retreat when attacked, only defending yourself when they continue the attack. Not with anything that can be construed a weapon and was out of place from where you got it.

There should be a simple rule to protect life and property. Not saying that property is more valuable than human life, but the protection of personal property from theft or criminal damage should allow a certain amount of leeway in the response.

The world is upside down and nobody in the current government gives a t*ss about us. Mps in their big houses are detached from the normal state of affairs that is taking place in the city centres and streets today.

Dude, i agree with most of what you say but i'm a bit baffled by this bit.

The law allows for self defence with "resonable force" and also allows you to defend yourself by striking first if you genuinely feel you are about to be attacked.
The difficulty is proving it all tho as the cops seem more intent on prosecuting those defending themselves overzealously rather than asking why the other person was putting themselves in a position whereby they were gonna get a beating for their behaviour.

After all the cops can arrest any of us under section 5 of the public order act (correct me if ive got the wrong act please someone) for using "threatening language or beahviour" and i cant understand why the public dont have any rights when they are faced with the same behaviour except to tollerate it and allow it to escelate due to the abuser seeing you as "weak" for not fighting back.

How many stories are their in local and national papers of a decent person standing up for themselves/property/friends only to end up getting killed for it? And how will it stop if discipline and respect dont start at home?

Hey Viney... can i join your gang mate

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Dude, i agree with most of what you say but i'm a bit baffled by this bit.

The law allows for self defence with "resonable force" and also allows you to defend yourself by striking first if you genuinely feel you are about to be attacked.
The difficulty is proving it all tho as the cops seem more intent on prosecuting those defending themselves overzealously rather than asking why the other person was putting themselves in a position whereby they were gonna get a beating for their behaviour.

After all the cops can arrest any of us under section 5 of the public order act (correct me if ive got the wrong act please someone) for using "threatening language or beahviour" and i cant understand why the public dont have any rights when they are faced with the same behaviour except to tollerate it and allow it to escelate due to the abuser seeing you as "weak" for not fighting back.

How many stories are their in local and national papers of a decent person standing up for themselves/property/friends only to end up getting killed for it? And how will it stop if discipline and respect dont start at home?

Hey Viney... can i join your gang mate

They got me on that a couple of years ago!!

Fascism:
A political theory advocating an "authoritarian hierarchical government"(as opposed to democracy or liberalism).

Socialism:
1/ An economic system based on "state ownership of capital".
2/ A political theory advocating "state ownership of industry".

Communism:
A form of socialism that "abolishes private ownership".

Is it just me or is there a common thread running through these ideologies?
Either the people have ownership and power or the government do, so I tend to lump together socialism, communism and fascism but then I put a liberal democracy on a completely different level, a sort of opposite ideal!
Do you see my way of thinking?
We are led to believe that the world of politics has lots of different and varied ideals but in reality there are only two, communism and democracy!

I mean....show me a socialist or communist country and I'll show you a fascist dictatorship running that country. What our government will end up doing, when we are totally fed up of being ripped off by the now privatised public sector, is take back control, centralise power and descision making, and only allow us to do things based on whether we can afford to pay or not.

New carbon taxes on your utility bills.
Pay per mile to drive.
They will make you pay to wipe your runny nose eventually and if you think this is far fetched nonsense wait a while and see what happens. If I'm wrong you can have a good laugh on my behalf, if I'm right then god help us all!

Of course I could just be talking bo**ocks!

Sorry a bit off topic there maybe....

I blame liberal views on crime and the idea that it is society is to blame or the parents and not the scumbag

Too much of a good thing.....too much freedom???

An individual must be held responsible for their actions!
When the authorities say that an 11 year old is not old enough to understand the consequences of their crimes, I find that highly questionable!

We have freedom limited by the laws we live under.
The problems are as much social as criminal. We have replaced the moral aspect of religion with the immoral aspect of greed and selfishness.

Now the guys who are caught could go to jail but may only get a small sentence. Is that justice?
If society believes that justice no longer serves the victims then we are in big trouble.

thats it im moving abroad youve all depressed me

thats it im moving abroad youve all depressed me

i dont think the problem is exclusive to this country im afraid...

The problem is with both respect & discipline in general.

Schools no longer have the ability to discipline children, many parents will not discipline their kids, and in fact, we are starting to see the 2nd generation of this.

Many "youths" of today are 2nd generation "non disciplined" children. Their parents lacked discipline and were never taught the values of right and wrong, so they don't (maybe don't even want to) instil this into their children. Money has little to do with it, although I would say that children from "richer" families can be disciplined by removal of access to material goods (ie take their games consoles etc from them). In poorer families it's not there to take away in the first place.

There is a fundamental lack of both respect and understanding about what is right or wrong, and what you should/shouldn't do. I sailed pretty close to the edge as a teenager, but in the end my Dad sorted me out. All it took was a very harsh talking to, and a visit from the local community copper. This doesn't happen nowdays

I have always tried to deal with my boy in a way he can understand. Maybe I've been lucky, but I find sitting down 1-2-1 with him, telling him how I feel and what I expect from him has worked. Making kids aware of what your expectations are and helping them reach them is a way they can aspire to something. He has also been brought up to understand that the police are not there to harass him, but to make sure that he keeps within the law and they have his best interests at heart.

Parents who don't play an active part in their children's upbringing only have themselves to blame. Yes the Government has got things wrong, yes our children are influenced by some of the "bad" things they see on TV, but without direction and commitment from the within their own home what chance do they have ?

I'll get off of my soapbox now....

.

Just had the Warington guardian deliverd and understandably the front page and pages 1 and 2 are devoted to Garry Newlove,s tragic murder, bur more importantly we have 3 pages devoted to Kerry Katona again, sorry but that just about sums up Warrington for me Im afraid.