Massacre post mortem

Traffic lights can be an area where the group can be consolidated as long as it's done sensibly. Same as getting to the front is fine providing it can be done without endangering others. However it's inevitable that in a group that big there will be differing opinions of other peoples riding, plus peeps get carried away with the atmosphere. The fact that there was only one off, no police presence, no car drivers stopping and waving fists (as far as I know) indicates that by and large we were no worse than 50 independent bikes out for a jolly.

I did notice a lot off thank you waves to vehicles that made room for us or allowed us through the traffic. That was good.

Surely the marker system worked, the point being that no-one took the wrong turning or anything like that? The obvious downside is the person designated to mark and rushing to get to there.

Originally Posted by petevtwin650

Traffic lights can be an area where the group can be consolidated as long as it's done sensibly. Same as getting to the front is fine providing it can be done without endangering others. However it's inevitable that in a group that big there will be differing opinions of other peoples riding, plus peeps get carried away with the atmosphere. The fact that there was only one off, no police presence, no car drivers stopping and waving fists (as far as I know) indicates that by and large we were no worse than 50 independent bikes out for a jolly.

I did notice a lot off thank you waves to vehicles that made room for us or allowed us through the traffic. That was good.

No disrespect is meant to the vast experience of the org, I haven't been riding that long, however as a driving instructor I think that the risks some people took, as I say overtaking approaching blind bends and riding down the centre line while cars were coming the other way seemed a bit silly

The overtaking done on a green light while the cars were trying to move out is what I refer to, not while the cars were stationary, they were trying to move out too

Sorry if this has gone off topic a little, please forgive me

[Blue Flame]

Originally Posted by northwind

The fuel situation should have been simple- everyone was told fill up before, and where the nearest station was, and there was fuel at Benderloch which every bike should have been able to reach in one jump, even if they hadn't filled up since before glasgow. But, maybe that message didn't get across, or maybe it was just unrealistic to expect everyone to actually listen, not sure.

I'll hold up my hand as a guilty peep on this topic and yes I was aware of the request to fuel up first. In my case my only reason is that I originally thought was that there was a station at Crianlarich that I could top up as my route was bringing me down to the campsite from the North.....but there wasn't, it was chucking it down and I thought feck it and headed down to the campsite. **** happens but this can be avoided by planning a start point near a fuel stop as with any large group there will always be some numpty like me that needs fuel early on

......... I have to say it drove me mental that anyone needed fuel at Glencoe, when they'd sat opposite a petrol station and watched everyone fill up 30 minutes earlier, and when all of the route plans and descriptions had Benderloch as a fuel stop. I'm going to not say any more about that for various reasons.

I appreciate your concerns with this point.......however.... when we arrived at Benderloch we were already running late, you had allowed ten minutes for the stop and there was no way the refuelling could be done in that space of time when you looked at the number of bikes at the pumps. I for one made a decision not to delay the group further as I was aware that the lunch stop was going to be protracted and a simple jink down to Glencoe at lunch would not delay matters. If I got back in time for the optional loop then fine but I wasn't bothered if I hadn't.

Giving people maps... I have to say, no, it's not a route I'd go down, it doesn't work well- we've done it with 10 people and still lost some.

I suggested this not as an essential "you will get lost if you don't keep referring to this" scenario but more of a courtesy and an insurance policy to both help the individual out in the event that they do miss a turn but also as a handy reference to the individual for fuel stops etc. I had printed one off but I was aware of a few that had not.

FWIW I think that the event was absolutely brilliantly organised (if that's correct grammar) so let's keep that in perspective. I am just nit picking at minor tweaks that could be made...as the thread had asked.

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by Endellion

Ok so as regards the marker system Northy, I think you are right, Its not that I myself thought it didn't work, what I was trying to say was that it confused me as nothing had been explained on the day about people marking the junctions, maybe I didn't hear it. As I haven't been on that many rideouts I was a little confused by it but thought that it worked really well. I think that more 'sub bosses' would help, and one big chief.

As regards the overtaking, allowing the faster ones to overtake, I am fine with being considerate towards anyone who wants to overtake me but I saw some pretty dodgy overtaking on the day, seemed like some people had to prove themselves or something, In a biggish group like this there were a few people that in my opinion took some unnecessary risks, backed up in part by the fact that I saw a few headlights flashed at the bikes overtaking, quite a lot of overtaking coming up to corners and when at road works it was as if the cars waiting at the front were invisible, do they not have the right to go through the green light too or do us bikers have priority, must have read the highway code wrong. This must seem like fun to some, or even how they normally ride but doesn't really help our image...

I only got confused once on a marked junction, but that was mainly down to the fact the poor bloke couldn't get his helmet off in time to point at the left turn...but then why am I called Dizzy?? turned round and caught up in no time with the group I'd been in front of.
As for dodgy overtakes.....well I hold my hands up on that one, I'm not the best at overtaking, and to be perfectly frank, although not super dangerous(apart from once up a hill with a caravan that suddenly decided to get faster) its all along a very slooooooow learning curve. I for one came back from Scotland with a few new skills in judgement and one rung higher on the improvement ladder. Perhaps you being a driving instructor puts your thoughts at a different angle but I can't drive and only see the road from a biker s point of view( and that'll be from...yes it can squeeze through there!)
As Pete pointed out all getting in at temp lights to the front, can be a helpful way of regrouping, and I didn't see any angry car drivers either, although I did think some of em may have been peeved when they didn't get through and had to wait longer. But I was taught to filter on my DAS 4 years back, so I do it considerately and without risk to myself or others, and if I can find room to be at the front....then I will jolly well go there, as will others. But on the whole with a group so large it went very smoothly, even the offs were very very minor. With so many inexperienced riders I'd have thought there would have been a major one, but heads up to all those guys.

And I will let any person who wants to be faster than me by, no skin off my nose, I do my own thing, and don't jump to be like a performing seal, and show off to my mates, or even to prove something to myself, funny not many people did go past me, and a lot of time I got out there on my own, at some point I thought i may have gone the wrong way again( as I can't read maps and ride) and slowed down til I had company. I invite anyone to overtake usually with a good wave over my head.....

[yorkie_chris]

Any overtakes on other bikes which are closer to filtering gaps, which some people may not be too comfy with, generally result when people slow down in corners and gun it on the straights. Never anything personal, just making progress.

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by Endellion

as I say overtaking approaching blind bends and riding down the centre line while cars were coming the other way seemed a bit silly

someone point out if i'm wrong, but...I think in these cases some of the folk have taken advanced riding lessons in some form either bikesafe, IAM etc. I do know that some folk go out into the opposite side on a bend to see if there is traffic coming, and give them a better view of the bend they are taking, riding down the centre line will probably come into that category somewhere and have an explanation. I myself ride quite near to the line in places, but thats to help me see ahead of a car and for my prescence in their mirror

[fizzwheel]

I think though we're in danger of wandering of into specifics of group riding / riding in a rideout which I dont think Northy was after.

At the end of the day I ride for myself I ride how I perceive things for me to be safe and I make sure I dont put other people at risk.

I thought the standard of riding was high I saw one or two things that I thought "I wouldnt do that" but I was never put at risk so I didnt really care either way.

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

I think though we're in danger of wandering of into specifics of group riding / riding in a rideout which I dont think Northy was after.

At the end of the day I ride for myself I ride how I perceive things for me to be safe and I make sure I dont put other people at risk.

I thought the standard of riding was high I saw one or two things that I thought "I wouldnt do that" but I was never put at risk so I didnt really care either way.

Amen to that one

It's impossible to judge somebody elses overtake unless they are wearing a helmet cam and you are watching it. If you stand in the road and look straight ahead, you often only need to walk a few metres forward or to the side to turn a blind bend into one you can see round. I'm not saying that stupid overtakes don't happen of course they do, I'm just saying what looks stupid to you may not have been blind for the rider. They could even have had a view of the road ahead beforehand and cleared the bend of traffic using a process of elimination. So unless you follow a rider closely and he does it every five minutes, try to give the benefit of the doubt. You can't do it the same in a car because you can't adjust position in the road to improve visibility by more than a metre or so, and you can't see over the hedges, on a bike your visibility is much more flexible.

Right - back on topic I hope!

The reason there was no explanation of markers doing junctions is because we weren't intending to have any. Just each rider wait and mark for the rider behind at each junction, then move off, with a lead rider and a tail end charlie.

Thats fine if your all in one big group. I think what went wrong was very early on at Arrochar, loads of bikes stopped for fuel and the group split in two.

I hadn't seen Northy leave Tarbet and I knew that 'cos I blocked the traffic at the main junction. The cars were being too impatient give way to such a huge load of bikes and trying to push through the middle of the group as it crossed the right hand turn, it was dangerous and cars were getting aggressive, so I just blocked the road and bought the car drivers to a complete halt. Until Loch Fyne I didn't know why Northy was delayed. Next year I think we need to have people arranged to stop the traffic at busy junctions.

When the group split in two at the Arrochar fuel stop, Chucca was away to Loch Fyne and Northy was stuck with the accident before Tarbet. Suddenly we had no lead rider and no TEC for about half the bikes on the rideout. Q and Indy took over TEC for the main group and I waited at the top of the hill for the those who had stopped for fuel. I expected them to wait for each other to refuel, and arrive together in a second group which I could lead, but they arrived in dribs and drabs. Bikes were really spread out, which is bad because a rider who can't see anyone else for miles starts to worry. People start turning back or turning off the route, in an assumption that they've gone the wrong way. Suddenly we needed markers.

Having trail bosses so that the TEC never gets left behind is a must for next year as if Northy had been at the back he would have stopped at Arrochar petrol station and I wouldn't have had to worry about the people there getting left behind or wandering off in the wrong direction.

After Inverary the group seemed to split in two again though I don't know why. Pete/Lissa and myself waited quite a while at Dalmally (Northy had said in his rideout directions if that junction wasn't marked he'd kill someone) and when the second half of the group didn't arrive, I left Pete and Lissa to catch the front group of riders. I was stuck behind a police car almost from Dalmally to Connel, and to my surprise nobody caught me, so Pete and Lissa must have been stopped for a while.

It wasn't until the stop after the Connel bridge that we regrouped again, then we managed to stay pretty much together for the rest of the rideout.

People who acted as "unofficial" markers and trail bosses were just doing the best they could, and what they thought best at the time, to keep everything together, and it worked, nobody got lost! But next year we need to formalise it.