911 TV program

[Spiderman]

MBK, i;m not gonna try and change you mind at all. What i would say is please do some of your own research rather than "believeing" the issues about fireproofing. Neither you or i know if that was done or done well or not. These are simplt things that the media has conditioned you to say.

Watch Loose Change on you tube or google vids, its interesting and informative but above all made by a couple of maerican kids who say all the way thru it "we have no answers ... juts questions. Questions we cant find answers to and we wanna know why, thats all."
Its a full on 90min documentary so please watch it all the way thru. Oh and watch Loose Change 2 as that is the better version after they took out some stuff they didnt believe themselves from the first cut.

To be fair, the emergency services were probably totally overwhelmed and trying to avoid a panic situation leading to a crush. The probably weren't expecting the towers to collapse, infact, given the amount of firefighters and police officers killed, the clearly weren't.

If there had been a so called conspiracy then the emergencey services would not have been told about it.

[Mr Speirs]

Yeah I think that's the point of conspiracies...no one knows about them

Originally Posted by Spiderman

MBK, i;m not gonna try and change you mind at all. What i would say is please do some of your own research rather than "believeing" the issues about fireproofing. Neither you or i know if that was done or done well or not. These are simplt things that the media has conditioned you to say.

Watch Loose Change on you tube or google vids, its interesting and informative but above all made by a couple of maerican kids who say all the way thru it "we have no answers ... juts questions. Questions we cant find answers to and we wanna know why, thats all."
Its a full on 90min documentary so please watch it all the way thru. Oh and watch Loose Change 2 as that is the better version after they took out some stuff they didnt believe themselves from the first cut.

I won't be watching the video. I have done a fair bit of reading into this and seen several different documentarys, all arguing with each other.

At the end of the day, we will NEVER know exactly what happened that day.

[Spiderman]

Shame MBK as i think eeryone who has any point of view should watch Loose Change.

As i say it doesnt try and say it knows who did what and why so for that reason its one of the better ones as it doesnt really argue with anoyone elses point of view.

Anyway, you call what you do with your time of course.

When I have time, I may look at it!

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by leedsmatt7

... as the most significant single moment in recent history ...

Am I callous because I don't agree with this point of view?

I do believe that the whole event was tragic. However, although it may have been a big shock to the USA that it could be a victim of terrorist angst from elsewhere in the world, to my mind the scale of the losses do not make it any more significant than other terrorist atrocities I can remember (Omagh, Hyde Park, Milan train, Lockerbie, London 7/7, amongst others).

As a result, I noticed the programme was scheduled and actively opted not to watch.

Of course, if someone can clearly demonstrate with a high degree of certainty that one of the conspiracy theories is actually the truth ...

[Mr Speirs]

I think it was more that it was the most observed atrocity and that many people had the unique view point around the world of the attack actually happening, not something that has ever happened before I don't think

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by Mr Speirs

I think it was more that it was the most observed atrocity and that many people had the unique view point around the world of the attack actually happening, not something that has ever happened before I don't think

Fair point, but I think that reinforces my point of view.

I saw loads of coverage on Sept 11 2001 and it will clearly stay in my mind forever as a horrendous occurrence so why do we need to re-run at every available opportunity?

Originally Posted by Ruffy

Am I callous because I don't agree with this point of view?

I do believe that the whole event was tragic. However, although it may have been a big shock to the USA that it could be a victim of terrorist angst from elsewhere in the world, to my mind the scale of the losses do not make it any more significant than other terrorist atrocities I can remember (Omagh, Hyde Park, Milan train, Lockerbie, London 7/7, amongst others).

As a result, I noticed the programme was scheduled and actively opted not to watch.

Of course, if someone can clearly demonstrate with a high degree of certainty that one of the conspiracy theories is actually the truth ...

Not to sound like a mug but Im 24, 16 when it happened it lead to 7/7 and the milan train thing was nothing on scale by comparrison. I stand by what I said its the single most significant piece of recent history.

Everyone focus's on the trade towers because of the catastrophy surrounding it, so lets start there.
The Collapse: I've seen its mentioned on here as the pancake theory but for those who dont know its better described as a house of cards. If you take one away then the whole thing goes down. As an engineer (civil mainly but I do structural work also). Steel is used in high rise construction because its properties make it relativly light weight and performs excellent in tension, a supported beam will transfer a load down to its supporting pillars. Unfortunatly steel when heated looses this property and becomes flexible, this then causes extra stress on other areas of the same structure. Modern buildings (WTC included) are all designed so that in the event of a high level fire the structure will hold long enough to evacuate the tower and control the fire Plus a massive safety margin. Evacuation takes place by one or more of the many staircases in the building positioned to allow a safe and speedy evac.
Now Jet fuel burns a damn site hotter than paper this reduces the amount of time that the building will stay structurally sound, evac porcedure will remain the same what ever the cause so fire crews will follow what their training has taught them and go in.

It seems not to get mentioned that the structure was alreay signifantly weakened thanks to a massive hole in the side of the building. That coupled with the high temp jet fuel burning and weakening the steel the structure suffered catastrophic failure. The loadings involved with the structure act vertically, so in the event of a structural failure, it fails vertically, it doesnt fall to one side it will collapse. Its common sense really if your building tall buildings so close to each other your not going to design them so that if they were to fall they took out most of the surrounding buildings.

Its a horrible reality, and I find it so odd that people want to make it an even greater one by fueling this mass idea that "the man" is to blame. I am far from an idealist and I know that a lot of people earn't a lot of money from 9/11. But those who believe in a conspiracy tell me how far back the conspiricy goes? Was it an american who wrote the Koran as its the words in there which lead the hyjackers to belive that by self sacrifice they would be re-warded in the after life. Those 19 people took thier own lives they obviously belived in more than getting oil into America.