LPG Conversion yes or no?

according to all the green sites it does. Dunno how though

Considering you are talking about a 1000cc engine you are aware that you also have a performance drop to go with the drop in fuel consumption. This is a lot less noticeable on any engine 2.0litre or above but I would imagine quite apparent on a small cc engine. The other factors to take into consideration is additional weight and resale of a vehicle that may be harder to dispose of and the additional maintenance, plus you don't seem to have a very high expectancy of engine life on the figures you are quoting.
I am not saying it is a bad idea but taking ALL the factors into consideration is it worth the hassle.
My answer to your question is no

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

How does LPG give out less CO2?

Originally Posted by Dicky Ticker

you also have a performance drop

Question answered.

Possibly, the propane will displace a significant amount of air in the intake meaning less fuel burnt to give the right mixture.


It does not sound worth the hassle to me either. Only reason it makes sense is if you're going to get some snorting great engine and keep it for years and lots of miles.
It will not take a great many issues to knock that break-even point well back for you with lots of extra hassle in there for a good measure.

[embee]

From what I've read, auto LPG is mainly a mix of propane C3H8 and butane C4H10 , typical petrol is around the ratio of C8-H18 (it isn't the same as simple "octane" C8H18 but the ratio ends up in that ballpark). depending on the exact blend, LPG ends up with less C and more H so proportionally less CO2 and more H2O when burnt. I haven't seen the mass comparisons but it should end up giving a bit less CO2, I've seen 81% quoted but I'm not sure if that's for equivalent mileage, I guess about 6% reduction from the higher calorific value effect and about 13% from the C/H ratio effect (7/8 or thereabouts), seems logical I think.

The sums for whether it's a cost effective conversion must be quite complex, petrol is typically 43MJ/kg and LPG is 46MJ/kg but because of the lower density you get around 26MJ/L for LPG compared to nearer 32MJ/L for petrol. Thus expect fuel economy to be something like 80% of that for petrol (miles per litre). Not sure of costs today, petrol £1-20 and LPG 70p/L ?? Correcting for economy that's £1-20 petrol and 88p LPG like for like, so about 75% of the fuel costs per mile compared to petrol.

Not sure what people actually see in real world driving.

If the Governments didn't fiddle the equations with ridiculous duty differences it'd be a different story.

Without going into great detail I was advised "No" on a 1000cc VW Polo which does about 55mpg so very similar to the propose vehicle.Somebody who I worked with had a Renault Clio done and it was magic for the year of warranty but after 18 months he had loads of trouble and ended up taking the whole system out.
Before anybody says anything I know this maybe a one off and unfair criticism when others may not have had the problems
I look at it this way---How many manufactures actually push it as a sales pitch?.
They are available from some but a couple of mates who work for different main agents say they are a right pain.

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by Dicky Ticker

Without going into great detail I was advised "No" on a 1000cc VW Polo which does about 55mpg so very similar to the propose vehicle.Somebody who I worked with had a Renault Clio done and it was magic for the year of warranty but after 18 months he had loads of trouble and ended up taking the whole system out.
Before anybody says anything I know this maybe a one off and unfair criticism when others may not have had the problems
I look at it this way---How many manufactures actually push it as a sales pitch?.
They are available from some but a couple of mates who work for different main agents say they are a right pain.

Not a one off at all, hence the points made in my post. It is so common a problem. Companies set up offering conversions with all the promises and a great warranty, but cut corners to offer a good price. Unfortunately, the systems only last a few years before going wrong, due to said corners being cut...the main one being the connections I mentioned earlier.

I'll ask my dad and Mykul tomorrow about the value in converting a 1000cc. They started out doing Land Rovers and other 4x4s, then when all the disgruntled customers started appearing, they had the work fall in their lap as they had such a good reputation.

Oh and Rob...yeah, we all take the mick out of him for the way his parents spelled his name...lol

[Sir Trev]

Originally Posted by Stu

Wrong!
Nothing you do to your car will affect it's road tax.

Sorry Stu, you're not quite right here. If you convert to LPG and get an LPGA certificate you can get the vehicle re-registered as alternative fuel, which gives a £10 reduction in road tax. It does not go down to the the bracket your clean running LPG engine now kicks out as you could convert and then run on petrol (as if you would after the capital outlay!) so your tax bracket stays effectively the same.

If the car is set up right you will not notice any performance drop. But I still question the need to go for LPG on a 55mpg small car... Unless you do starship miles it's not likely to be worth it for several years and the hassle factor may be huge. Good luck - there are a lot of rubbish installers out there!!

Some insurance companies will not insure aftermarket conversions whither they are certified or not. Others will, but an increased premium,providing you have an annual test on the system which is more expense.All these little bits of expense add up over a 3-4 year period which have to be offset against the gain calculated on today's fuel prices and your usage
As I stated in a previous post,on advice purely over the financial gain I was told that it was not worth the trouble on a small c.c. engine with comparatively low annual mileage,but, in the end the decision is for you to make as to whether it would be beneficial to you after weighing up all the pros and cons.

[Sir Trev]

Dicky - the service cost is a fuel filter (inline jobbie) and an hours labour to check connections for any leaks, so it's not too bad. Bit more if you want them to re-set the mapping at the same time.

As to insurance, some take a silly view but I found on the comparison sites you can often add LPG on the modifications page and I had no problem getting cover at a reasonable price. Depends on location/age and the like of course.

With the mileage I was doing on a 2.0 relatively heavy car it was worth it. But as I said before I'd not do it again unless I had a big thirsty car I really wanted to keep - current diseasals are now more economical and the new turbo petrol lumps are getting there too. Being a slightly anal bean counter thinking of changing my other car next year I do of course have a comparison spreadsheet. The 2.0 TDIs are much cheaper overall and the 1.6T petrols give the same power with less CO2, better MPG and lower VED than my 06 plate 2.0 LPG Mondy.

The LPG we get in the UK is basicly crap, people I know who have toured in France on gas have reported a 10% economy increase and more grunt running on French LPG compared to what they get here... A re-map can take advantage of the higher octain (about 107 RON) to cancell out any performance drop by dialing in some extra ignition advance.

I'm thinking of upgrading the LPG on mine to sequential so I can have a MAF conversion and twin-map ECU...