Better to Maim than to speed!!

True but consider that you can go to jail for non-payment of a tv licence...

you can go to jail for playing your music too loud if that means breaking an ASBO....

But you get minorly inconvenienced for a mistake which puts someone in the position and pain Tim is in.

That just doesnt sit right with me Fair play he felt bad then.

But people who arent injured forget and how long before hes back in his old bad driving habits and not looking? Habits are hard to break and perhaps the education/retest should be considered.

But I still want van man in jail... not so much for the fact he pulled out with a goldwing right in front of him and me 2m behind but for the fact he assaulted both of us. But driving offence wise, he will get fa and that does burn a bit cos he doesnt think hes done anything wrong and points and a fine aint gonna change his attitude.

[21QUEST]

Totally understand why you would be unhappy about the situation but at the same time .......

Originally Posted by Ceri JC

Seconded. Kick up a stink, it's a bit too late for election time, but rectifying the situation might earn whoever gets into power some easy brownie points at the start of their term.

That just made me . Yeah I guess if he has got so much time on his hands then yes.

Originally Posted by jonboy

Tim, it's just a matter of politics, don't take it too badly. Life ain't fair, that's simply the way it is. And if you're going to make the effort to write to your MP, then good for you .


.

Exactly

Originally Posted by coombest

Hmm...

Wasn't really bothered about going any further with it but the more I think about it, the more I just might do something!
To rub salt into the wound, I still haven't had all the money owed to me from his insurance company for my wrecked bike & my costs (about £2,000 left!) and even when that has been settled, I will still be about £1,000 out of pocket!

Good, innit!!!

Now you are just being bitter (does you no good). The fact that you have not received all money due to you has nothing to do with the sentence. I don't see how you will be out of pocket if you have claimed for all you are entitled (except your solicitors are not doing their jobs properly)

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Agreed. Dispite what my views in a criminal sense are, being left out of pocket is wrong. You should be compensated, no question.

Why? He was involved in an accident in which I believe the other party was insured and liability admitted so why should he be thinking of suing the other party?

Originally Posted by lynw

2. points/fine alone as Ive said in the other thread are not sufficient. As some have said this doesnt feel like justice. Especially in comparison to speeding offences. Yes consider a range of sentences but fine/points alone is not sufficient deterrant.

4. this country is becoming too blame culture orientated where there has to be something/one else responsible. People are unable to accept responsiblity for their actions. Most accidents are avoidable but are caused by speeding, inattention and carelessness. Sentences as above are not sufficient deterrent.

People try and deflect the causes between deliberate/not deliberate, genuine mistakes etc. But the fact is these are rare. Inattention is the number one cause of accidents. That is an offence by law and should be punishable with sentences for those convicted to learn from. This guys laughing really. The sentence is a joke for the amount of pain and suffering his inattention caused.

5. There is no easy answer to solving this and weve gone round and round about ways to do it in the other thread. But the be all and end all is that its not justice that what happened to Tim has been treated more lightly than speeding offences where no-one is injured. And its just plain wrong imho.

You may say that but if were me that (points etc) would be a big issue. Why do we always get the 'in comparison to speeding'? Speeding is not the only offence going (don't speed and you will be ok) or would people rather he was charged with speeding?

Totally agree with the fact that the country is becoming blame culture /litigation orientated . You agree that speeding is one of the main causes of accidents then? Got a foolproof way of differentiating between deliberate/not deliberate and genuine mistakes?

Of cause Tim has a right to feel 'hard done by' but 'c'est la vie'.

Originally Posted by rubberduckofdeath

For me it's not the actual accident that Tim suffered. It's the fact that nearly everything about road safety nowadays focusses on SPEED.

More people need to highlight accidents like this and the results and consequences of them so that less emphasis is put on speed and more on more considered driving and higher driving standards. These can (as we've discussed a million times), only be achieved through more education and better policing which means more police and less cameras!

'SPEED' again. Sorry bud but I think the authorities ready know that. They just make more money from speeding fines. Personally I'll rather have more cameras (fixed though ). At least you know where you stand with them.

Originally Posted by Nekkid

Errr, is that meant how it sounds??

It would increase the pressure on the powers that be to take more notice of the real cause of accidents, not just speed. It would have been better if they'd made the guy do his advanced driving test rather than just a tiny fine and points.[/img]

See above. The only thing I can see it doing is making Tim feel better (and nothing wrong with that by the way). Just out of curiosity have you done you advanced driving/riding test?

Originally Posted by Sythree

Tim - just a thought.

Did the bloke visit you in hospital, at home, or send a card/flowers/chocs etc? If he is feeling so bad about it, that is the least you should expect.

I would also write to the chairman of the Eastbourne mags to say how you feel and what a joke this sentence is. Won't change the outcome here but at least it might make them take a different view on future cases.

I'm with lyn on this - points and a fine are regarded as an inconvenience rather than a punishment and are an insufficient deterrent. In the days when I had a company car, which the company insured, points on licence made no difference at all to the premium (not that I've ever had any points) - it was £600 per driver - so this talk of insurance being more difficult isn't necessarily true.

Maybe he is feeling so bad he could not manage to send flowers etc. Again points/fine would just be an incovenience to you it does'nt apply to everyone.



quote="chutz"]

I was in the a+e when Tim was there. The copper from the scene asked Tim's permission to tell the driver of his condition as he did feel really bad and was extremely concerned about any injuries his appalling driving had caused. i understand and share some of the sentiments about his lenient sentence/punishment but also see that it was just a silly, careless mistake and that maybe doing more would be more about revenge than justice. It just looks so unfair when compared to the punishment for speeding as the focus is now so far from reality when it comes to motoring offences. Chin up Tim, life's too short and you're too tall!!! [/quote]

Ah... so well put

Originally Posted by lynw

True but consider that you can go to jail for non-payment of a tv licence... 'So'

you can go to jail for playing your music too loud if that means breaking an ASBO.... 'and'

But you get minorly inconvenienced for a mistake which puts someone in the position and pain Tim is in. 'Ok then if you say so'

That just doesnt sit right with me Fair play he felt bad then.

But people who arent injured forget and how long before hes back in his old bad driving habits and not looking? Habits are hard to break and perhaps the education/retest should be considered. 'You know all this for certain I take it'

Again Tim not my intention to make light of the way you feel. I've had my fair share of bad accidents and know how much pain etc can be involved. Hope you keep making good progress and just look ahead.

Cheers
Ben
totally understand why you would be unhappy about the situatuation but at the same time .......

Originally Posted by Ceri JC

Seconded. Kick up a stink, it's a bit too late for election time, but rectifying the situation might earn whoever gets into power some easy brownie points at the start of their term.

That just made me . Yeah I guess if he has got so much time on his hands then yes.

Originally Posted by jonboy

Tim, it's just a matter of politics, don't take it too badly. Life ain't fair, that's simply the way it is. And if you're going to make the effort to write to your MP, then good for you .


.

Exactly

Originally Posted by coombest

Hmm...

Wasn't really bothered about going any further with it but the more I think about it, the more I just might do something!
To rub salt into the wound, I still haven't had all the money owed to me from his insurance company for my wrecked bike & my costs (about £2,000 left!) and even when that has been settled, I will still be about £1,000 out of pocket!

Good, innit!!!

Now you are just being bitter (does you no good). The fact that you have not received all money due to you has nothing to do with the sentence. I don't see hoew you will be out of pocket if you have claimed for all you are entitled(except yopur solicitors are of course not on the ball)

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

Agreed. Dispite what my views in a criminal sense are, being left out of pocket is wrong. You should be compensated, no question.

Why? He was involved in an accident in which I believe the other party was insured and liabilty admitted so why should he even be thinking of suing the other party?

Originally Posted by lynw

2. points/fine alone as Ive said in the other thread are not sufficient. As some have said this doesnt feel like justice. Especially in comparison to speeding offences. Yes consider a range of sentences but fine/points alone is not sufficient deterrant.

4. this country is becoming too blame culture orientated where there has to be something/one else responsible. People are unable to accept responsiblity for their actions. Most accidents are avoidable but are caused by speeding, inattention and carelessness. Sentences as above are not sufficient deterrent.

People try and deflect the causes between deliberate/not deliberate, genuine mistakes etc. But the fact is these are rare. Inattention is the number one cause of accidents. That is an offence by law and should be punishable with sentences for those convicted to learn from. This guys laughing really. The sentence is a joke for the amount of pain and suffering his inattention caused.

5. There is no easy answer to solving this and weve gone round and round about ways to do it in the other thread. But the be all and end all is that its not justice that what happened to Tim has been treated more lightly than speeding offences where no-one is injured. And its just plain wrong imho.

You may say that but trust mre if were me that(points etc) would be a big issue. Why do we always get the 'in comparison to speeding'? Speeding is not the only offence going(don't speed and you will be ok) or would people rather he was charged wth speeding?

Totally agree with the fact that the country is becoming blame culture /litigious orientated. You agree that speeding is one of the main causes of accidents then? You got a foolproof way of differenting between delibrate/not delibrate and genuine mistakes?

Of cause Tim has a right to feel 'hard done by' but 'c'est la vie'.

Originally Posted by rubberduckofdeath

For me it's not the actual accident that Tim suffered. It's the fact that nearly everything about road safety nowadays focusses on SPEED.

More people need to highlight accidents like this and the results and consequences of them so that less emphasis is put on speed and more on more considered driving and higher driving standards. These can (as we've discussed a million times), only be achieved through more education and better policing which means more police and less cameras!

'SPEED' again. Sorry bud but I think the authority are ready know that. They just make more money from speeding fines. Personally I'll rather have more cameras(fixed though ). Atleast you know where you stand with them.

Originally Posted by Nekkid

Errr, is that meant how it sounds??

It would increase the pressure on the powers that be to take more notice of the real cause of accidents, not just speed. It would have been better if they'd made the guy do his advanced driving test rather than just a tiny fine and points.[/img]

See above. The only thing I can see it doing is making Tim feel better(and nothing wrong with that by the way). Just out of curiousity have you done you advanced driving/riding test?

Originally Posted by Sythree

Tim - just a thought.

Did the bloke visit you in hospital, at home, or send a card/flowers/chocs etc? If he is feeling so bad about it, that is the least you should expect.

I would also write to the chairman of the Eastbourne mags to say how you feel and what a joke this sentence is. Won't change the outcome here but at least it might make them take a different view on future cases.

I'm with lyn on this - points and a fine are regarded as an inconvenience rather than a punishment and are an insufficient deterrent. In the days when I had a company car, which the company insured, points on licence made no difference at all to the premium (not that I've ever had any points) - it was £600 per driver - so this talk of insurance being more difficult isn't necessarily true.

Maybe he is feeling so bad he could not manage to send flowers etc. Maybe to you points/fine would just be an incovenience. It does'nt apply to everyone.

Originally Posted by chutz

I was in the a+e when Tim was there. The copper from the scene asked Tim's permission to tell the driver of his condition as he did feel really bad and was extremely concerned about any injuries his appalling driving had caused. i understand and share some of the sentiments about his lenient sentence/punishment but also see that it was just a silly, careless mistake and that maybe doing more would be more about revenge than justice. It just looks so unfair when compared to the punishment for speeding as the focus is now so far from reality when it comes to motoring offences. Chin up Tim, life's too short and you're too tall!!!

Ah... so well put

Originally Posted by lynw

True but consider that you can go to jail for non-payment of a tv licence... 'So'

you can go to jail for playing your music too loud if that means breaking an ASBO.... 'and'

But you get minorly inconvenienced for a mistake which puts someone in the position and pain Tim is in. 'Ok then if you say so'

That just doesnt sit right with me Fair play he felt bad then.

But people who arent injured forget and how long before hes back in his old bad driving habits and not looking? Habits are hard to break and perhaps the education/retest should be considered. 'You know all this for certain I take it'

Again Tim not my intention to make light of the way you feel. I've had pretty bad accidents and know how much pain etc can be involved. Hope you keep making good progress and just look ahead.

Peeps take a 'chill pill' and 'kick back'. World does not revolve around bikes , people make mistake , courts are sometimes a joke but you know what 'LIFE IS GOOD' .



Cheers
Ben

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

Got a foolproof way of differentiating between deliberate/not deliberate and genuine mistakes?

If youd read my post properly that was my exact point against Jordan saying about deliberate and mistakes....

That you cant easily make that distinction...

Yeah so if the distinction can't be made then the law has to assume that it wasn't deliberate. Otherwise you're assuming someones guilty of something they aren't, and the whole innocent till proven guilty concept goes out the window.

Unfortunately that means some people who should be locked up get off with a slap on the wrist Not really any way round that though.

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

Now you are just being bitter (does you no good). The fact that you have not received all money due to you has nothing to do with the sentence. I don't see how you will be out of pocket if you have claimed for all you are entitled (except your solicitors are not doing their jobs properly)

No - I'm not being bitter. Just pointing out a fact.
My Solicitor has been excellent but his insurance company (Norwich Union) would not go any further with payments or anything until they had the Police report. They even revoked their admission of fault until they had seen it!
as for the money being paid out if I've spent/lost it... You clearly haven't dealt with insurance companied before!! They will give you what they want to if they feel they are paying too much! They clearly don't like that they are having to fork out so much money on me when their premium wouldn't have been very large!

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

You may say that but if were me that (points etc) would be a big issue. Why do we always get the 'in comparison to speeding'? Speeding is not the only offence going (don't speed and you will be ok) or would people rather he was charged with speeding?

Totally agree with the fact that the country is becoming blame culture /litigation orientated . You agree that speeding is one of the main causes of accidents then? Got a foolproof way of differentiating between deliberate/not deliberate and genuine mistakes?

Of cause Tim has a right to feel 'hard done by' but 'c'est la vie'.

The reason I chose to use speeding as an example was because it, itself does not hurt anyone but carries a whopping great penalty/punishment if you get caught... However, nearly killing me is clearly far less dangerous (and therefore less penalty attached to it) than speeding!

Originally Posted by 21QUEST

'SPEED' again. Sorry bud but I think the authorities ready know that. They just make more money from speeding fines. Personally I'll rather have more cameras (fixed though ). At least you know where you stand with them.

And they call this a 'Justice system!?' Where's the justice in that!

I think you would have to be the only person I know that would rather have more speed cameras!

I would rather have more traffic cops. If you get hit by a careless driver, or heaven forbid, a drunk or unlicenced driver, you tell me you feel the same way. Speed cameras won't catch that - only speeding motorists!
also - if a traffic cop pulls you over & dolls out points & a fine for speeding, you know you've done it & will (probably) drive slower/better from there on... it's immediate. If you receive a letter in the post telling you that 2 weeks ago, you were speeding, here's your points & a fine - what good is that. You could have lost your licence by then from yet more speed cameras!

Originally Posted by 21QUES

See above. The only thing I can see it doing is making Tim feel better (and nothing wrong with that by the way). Just out of curiosity have you done you advanced driving/riding test?

What has whether I've done an advanced driving/riding test got to do with it!? I simply wanted the guy to lose his licence for a short period of time, which would necessitate a re-teat. An advanced driving test wouldn't be a bad plan either.

And - I did intend to do an advanced riding & driving test this summer but being knocked off my bike has kinda delayed that, as I'm more bothered about simply being able to do normal things and ride or drive for an extended time without being in absolute agony... I also can't afford it until I've had the rest of the money I'm owed!

any way... I thought we were forgetting about this now!

and once more:


Enough Already!!!

we've gone round and round over and over... we all differ so lets just stop now eh?