U turns...swerve tests...for or against

Yep still on the CBR125RR, the loud looking one! I bought on recommendation over the CG125 that I was going to buy - The bike is helping me with learning the roadcraft and confidence riding on the road - being a late starter I took this as my best route rather than go the whole hog DAS at once! I have booked the 3 day course, everything is crossed and time enough to practice the infamous U-turn which at the moment is OK....even if it is at a snails pace sometimes

Like i said, on a larger capacity bike, some things will be quite different...the u-turn being one of them. You can get away with low RPM and pootle around on a 125, but on a larger bike the more revs the better. That said practice does make perfect and its to be encouraged....

Originally Posted by stuartyboy

A guy doing his u-turn put his foot down on training....and the bike ended 30 yards away upside down in a garden.

Fair enough. But then again my neighbour was so indoctrinated against putting his foot down that on his test, even when he knew he wasn't going to make it, he tried to pick the bike up on the gas. He ended up flat on his back in the middle of the road and the bike was, well, about 30 yards away upside down on the pavement.

Didn't bother with the rest of the test...

Originally Posted by ASM-Forever

I wouldn't bother too much on your 125(i assume thats what you are hooning around on) as the larger bike is a completely different machine...more effortless to ride IMO.

Huuruumph. What's wrong with 125s? *indignant*

Seriously. Ya can learn a lot on any bike, just maybe you learn different things or in different ways. I accept that if the ultimate aim is to ride a 'big bike' then experiance on a smaller bike only takes you so far and there's a limit as to what it will do for you, but the same is true for practise on a bigger bike too, even if the limit is slightly further down the line. As the bloke says the rules of the road and much of the roadcraft are the same.

And yes as you might have gathered I'm proud of my CG and the miles I've done on her. I'm also proud of the fact I insured my mate on her last year, left her in his garage with the keys and that he thanked me for the ~200 miles he got to do outside his DAS training before walking the test.

My DAS training school taught the following (to illustrate small vs big bike):

On a small bike, 125cc or less, you hold "command position" (right in the centre of the lane), if people want to come past you, they will when they can. At least you're not pushed into the gutter!! 125cc bikes just don't have the power to do any decent speed (I live near mainly NSL areas).

On a bigger bike, you move around to see the road ahead and worry less about things coming from behind you. Obviously don't neglect mirrors though.

Having ridden a CG125 on the road, and then the SV, I agree with the above sentiments taught by the training school.

I think the swerve test is good. The simple "30mph" (I wonder how many are actually above 25mph) emergency stop is so easy it does not give any indication of how much harder it is to stop a bike and steer it at the same time, and the briskness of the 30mph stop is such that someone could easily not be aware of how much further you travel when trying to stop from 60mph.

I'm all for much more training, I would have seen the course above as definitely valuable, but I think the test still has to have a degree of leniency. They say it will become harder when this new test comes in, but will the pass rate actually drop?

For the first time I think I have to disagree with Baph here. Not completely but quite vehemently in parts. Though quite possibly I am missing the point and have got all hot under the collar for no reason.

Yes they teach you that. Yes that's a good starting base \ default. Yes there are times you need to do something along the lines of "command position". I refuse to accept however that riding a 125 ends there.

Ok so you'll never do the three figure speeds you can on a bigger bike but most people don't tend to do them except in a straight line and folks speeds in a straight line don't really take much to achieve. You can learn a lot about cornering up to the speed of the bike and I've seen an indicated 80 on my CG so I've done plenty of back roads including corners at 60/70 that I doubt you'd get round quicker unless you had better suspension. No you don't have the sort of acceleration that by itself is going to get you into trouble. But riding without that power teaches you other things. I learned to read the road so I didn't have to slow down, or so I could work out where I might get an overtake opportuinity.

If a car catches me up then I'll get out of it's way. I don't get pushed out of the way though. If I think I need to defend myself then I'll ride in a dominant road position, not through the **** in the middle though, in the right hand car track (which is where I'd argue you should be riding any machine as a default position with no traffic around and a straight road - mid way between the two present dangers, the left and right verges).

Aaargh I'm just so frustrated that I can't get my feelings and thoughts down adequately in words.

"Moving around to see the road ahead" etc ok so you might not have as much to gain but it can still be practised or done or used. I've ridden on the wrong side of the road on the CG to get a better view, hell I've overtaken half a dozen cars going round a bend on the wrong side of the road BECAUSE I could see what they couldn't (and 'cos I'm only two and summit' foot wide granted).

Get into town and or traffic and where's your power advantage here? If we're talking about practising for a test, or commuter riding then town stuff is relevant and you can stick your cc's for that. Roundabouts, awesome on a little bike. You can really attack them and becuase the bike is so manouverable you can do some silly things. Without wishing to bore you too much I've overtaken 5 cars on a roundabout through some really agrressive riding, left the bigger bike behind me standing let alone the cars.

Now maybe I think all this because I'm a rubbish rider (I accept that I'm a rubbish riding, I'm not really quite so keen to accept that I think this because of it) but I do get riled by people dismissing, looking past, looking down on, ignoring etc 125s - or at any rate me and mine.

Ahh rant over, or at least that'll have to do for now.

Again, this comes back to the bike vs rider debate However...

Originally Posted by 2mths

Get into town and or traffic and where's your power advantage here? If we're talking about practising for a test, or commuter riding then town stuff is relevant and you can stick your cc's for that. Roundabouts, awesome on a little bike. You can really attack them and becuase the bike is so manouverable you can do some silly things. Without wishing to bore you too much I've overtaken 5 cars on a roundabout through some really agrressive riding, left the bigger bike behind me standing let alone the cars.

Interesting view point, and personally, I'd love to see what would happen with a CG125 vs an SV (or other large capacity bike) filtering in traffic. Granted I've only ridden in central London once, but the pace we were doing, a 125cc bike flat out wouldn't stand a chance of keeping up. That was leaving Victoria docks at 5:30pm BTW.

I don't get much chance to filter, but when I do, I filter hard (and accept fully that one day I'll fall hard because of it). About the only advantage a smaller bike would have is the reduced wheel base IMO. Everything else, the bigger bike has the advantage. You can argue width if you want, but most people that live in city's etc have very narrow bikes (mirrors tucked in as much as possible etc).

My point is not necessarily that the CG is better at filtering (though that might be my personal opinion in certain circumstances) it's that to all intents and purposes it filters as well as a big bike and you can learn that skill on it.

That was sort of the push of my argument throughout the last post. No a CG (used as an alternative reference for a 125 at the preference of this post's author) won't teach you to ride a big bike, but it can teach you to ride.

Having owned my 125 for a year now, I am ready to go onto the next stage and wouldnt put a 125 down, certainly not as learning curve for someone wanting to get into biking. I did originally think I needed more power/speed but soon go used to what bike was capable of and now ride knowing its limitations - I was out today and the back twice slipped a bit making me sit up and check my pants! - Bike went into service so a good overall ride from Ligh****er to Coulsdon via Guildford, the A3 etc. Riding in the rain certainly tires you out and with this only being my 2nd outing in the rain I need more confidence on roundabouts and some car drivers, I mean lots, should give leaners more room and not try and come up the inside on a r/about! Rambling now....